No Chill Brewing

[56 Firedome]

@Trialben - Just a few questions about No Chill.
1 Do you leave the Hops stand in the Kettle during the overnight rest?
2 Do you Whirlpool &/or Steep before Flame Out or after?
3 Do you leave the Break Material in the Kettle when you transfer from Kettle to Fermenter?

I did Whirlpool for 20 minutes with the Kettle insulated before knocking off for the night. The next morning, the Wort was at 160 deg. I unwrapped the Kettle & let it continue to cool. Breakfast & some chores before returning to the Brew. I transfered the Wort to the Fermenter, the Wort was clear, no Break Material visible. I took an OG reading, it was same as previous runs of this recipe.
I liked this process & would like to know more of the fine points.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Zambi]

Following

 

[GFHomebrew]

@Trialben - Just a few questions about No Chill.
1 Do you leave the Hops stand in the Kettle during the overnight rest?
2 Do you Whirlpool &/or Steep before Flame Out or after?
3 Do you leave the Break Material in the Kettle when you transfer from Kettle to Fermenter?

I did Whirlpool for 20 minutes with the Kettle insulated before knocking off for the night. The next morning, the Wort was at 160 deg. I unwrapped the Kettle & let it continue to cool. Breakfast & some chores before returning to the Brew. I transfered the Wort to the Fermenter, the Wort was clear, no Break Material visible. I took an OG reading, it was same as previous runs of this recipe.
I liked this process & would like to know more of the fine points.
Thanks for any input.

Yes to all .
Hops stand Hops as well as any spices fruits I add to a hop bag and they hang out until yeast pitch.

I have reticulated a "Whirlpool style flame out hop addition on a hoppy beer just to keep everything in suspension. But really it's jist treated like a hop stand.

Now number three is a bit of both depending on if I No chill in the kettle or if I transfer hot (which is what I do mostly) at knock-out straight into my stilainless kegmenter then all the trub mostly comes in bar the really heavy stuff.

Now in your recipe in the "more section" in summer I'd put 30 mins extended boil time. That's time above 80c isomerisation temp. And in winter I knock it back to 20mins a guestimate.

Another way of thinking is treat you 30 min addition as 60mins 0 mins as 30 ect ect.
It sorta works like that .

So I've been doing 30 min boils of late that coupled with the No Chill extended isomerisation time works well I believe.

This method works great on lager beers and I'm still getting plenty of hopiness on my more hop forward Beers.

Hope it helps its a big time saver especially in summer when the ground temperature can make it a chore to get down to pitching temps.

@Bubba Wade No Chill brews too...

 

[Minbari]

just my thought on this: any risk of wild yeast or bacteria getting to it? I would be paranoid to leave sweet wort at 140° over night.

even with 80° summer water I can get my kettle down to 120-130° in about 30 minutes. Transfer to fermentor and the glycol chiller gets it to pitch temp in a couple hours.

 

[GFHomebrew]

just my thought on this: any risk of wild yeast or bacteria getting to it? I would be paranoid to leave sweet wort at 140° over night.

even with 80° summer water I can get my kettle down to 120-130° in about 30 minutes. Transfer to fermentor and the glycol chiller gets it to pitch temp in a couple hours.

So far so good fingers crossed .
Unless I can't taste the contamination lol !.
I've brewed a fair variety of styles from pilsner- Swartzbier-saison - hoppy blonds and pales - ambers ect and all have been dam delicious if I may biasly say so myself.

The crucial thing I watch out for is bitterness I err on the low side of the scale and also hop astringency but so far I've been lucky (you know maybe not throwing a HighVoltageMan amount of whirlpool hops in for an overnight cool down!

Yeah so this is how I think of sanitation side of no chill.
The "wild bugs " have got to survive the boil and we'll if I'm cooling in the kettle via Imersion Chiller or letting time and temperature do it there is similar levels of risk I feel if anything No Chill feels safer.

I'll lay some aluminium foil over top of kettle and put lid on at flame out it seals pretty well. It has to in summer I've got flys both fermentation flys and house flys to deal with so that's a real continuation risk.

Anyhow hey the main thing is your comfortable brewing beer the way you do and that your getting great results.

 

[Minbari]

It sounds like the precautions you take work.

I don't use an immersion chiller, but I can see that. Most people i know boil it in the kettle for the last 5 minutes, minimizes the risk.

 

[GFHomebrew]

It sounds like the precautions you take work.

I don't use an immersion chiller, but I can see that. Most people i know boil it in the kettle for the last 5 minutes, minimizes the risk.

Yeah the No Chill think originated in Aus.
Originally and still to this day as I have done in the past once flame out you rack into a HDPE cube fill to brim push air out and leave until you need it.

We're pretty dry in Aus (we'll usually not going by this freekish record flood year)

 

[Zambi]

I'm on sort of half no-chill.
I cool first by putting the pot in the sink with (sort of) cold water.
Swirl the water around. When hot, drain and put new water. I do this about 4 times. After that, I go for "natural" cooling.
At no time do I remove the lid.
This is for small batch (immersion chillernis too big) and we have no shortage of water. But the water is not cold enough to cool all the way

 

[Steve Ruch]

@Trialben - Just a few questions about No Chill.
1 Do you leave the Hops stand in the Kettle during the overnight rest?
2 Do you Whirlpool &/or Steep before Flame Out or after?
3 Do you leave the Break Material in the Kettle when you transfer from Kettle to Fermenter?

I did Whirlpool for 20 minutes with the Kettle insulated before knocking off for the night. The next morning, the Wort was at 160 deg. I unwrapped the Kettle & let it continue to cool. Breakfast & some chores before returning to the Brew. I transfered the Wort to the Fermenter, the Wort was clear, no Break Material visible. I took an OG reading, it was same as previous runs of this recipe.
I liked this process & would like to know more of the fine points.
Thanks for any input.

Why did you leave the insulation on the kettle overnight? That defeats the purpose of leaving it to cool over night.

 

[56 Firedome]

@Steve Ruch Actually just following my understanding of Ben's technique. I figured the Slow Cool Down was a part of the Steep. Whether you insulate or not the Kettle is waiting for you to eat breakfast for the next step anyway.
Ben leaves his Hop Stand in the Kettle overnight. Seems like holding the temp in the isomersation range improves the Hop Utilization.
I unwrap the Kettle & pump into the Fermenter at approx 140 F where it continues to cool into Pitch Temp range.
To me 1 advantage of the Whirlpool & pumping into the Fermenter is the emulsification of the Break Material. When the final cooling is complete there is still no solids in the Fermenter & the resulting sweet wort is clear.
This was my 1st try on the No Chill technique & I'm sure I'll be doing it again. I'm planning to use Ben's aluminum foil gasket idea. I had been aware of the Suck Down of the lid as the Kettle cools. It makes a good seal. Contamination seems unlikely.
@Trialben my problem is not Flys but big red ants have discovered that most surfaces have trace amounts of sugar. I'm defending the Kettle, spoon, spills & carboys.

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

I started using the no chill earlier this year with help from @Trialben. I have not tasted any off flavors. Up until the last few weeks my basement was at 66F all day. Now at 70+F, it will just take a bit longer. I have used the basement fridge to get the last few degree down for a couple of brews. I am a member of the "no Chill" brew club.

 

[Sunfire96]

I'm also a big fan of no chill brewing. I remove the hops from the wort after the hop stand however. After a 10-20 min hopstand I transfer the hot wort to the fermenter and I get plenty of hop utilization. Bitterness comes from the isomerization of alpha acids, which reside in the essential oils produced by the lupulin glands of the hop. Once the oils are in the wort, you don't need the physical hops anymore.

Lately I've been brewing with kveik, so I start the strike water around 8 am, transfer wort around 11, and pitch yeast around 8 pm. I also ferment under pressure, so the beer is ready to drink in about 3 days

 

[GFHomebrew]

Here's a pic of the kettle after last night's no chill brew

One thing I do do in the last 10 mins is give the lip of the kettle a wipe to clear off any mill dust from doe in then I skwirt it with sanitizer then put the alfoil on.
Sorta a double protection.

 

[Dirty Dingo Brewing CO.]

So for starters, I don't doubt at all that no chill brewing can work. In my early days, I did it.

However, when you are chilling your wort, the faster the better. The quicker you chill it, the more the proteins will bond, and the longer the bonds will become. Commercially, this is why glycol is used. It's basically instant. Benefit of those protein bonds is that it locks in more flavour. This is why we also mash out.

When homebrewing, the rank of fastest to slowest are Glycol, Counterflow, Plate and Immersion, followed by no chill or ice bath. Personally, I do an ice bath with an immersion in summer in Australia, and can be done in under 20 mins.

Secondly, there is zero risk of infection using an immersion chiller. Everything that is potentially harmful (harmful bacteria) dies at about 75C. So putting it into 100C is going to DEFINITELY kill everything.

Bottom line, I don't recommend no chill brewing, and highly suggest immersion or better.

 

[GFHomebrew]

So for starters, I don't doubt at all that no chill brewing can work. In my early days, I did it.

However, when you are chilling your wort, the faster the better. The quicker you chill it, the more the proteins will bond, and the longer the bonds will become. Commercially, this is why glycol is used. It's basically instant. Benefit of those protein bonds is that it locks in more flavour. This is why we also mash out.

When homebrewing, the rank of fastest to slowest are Glycol, Counterflow, Plate and Immersion, followed by no chill or ice bath. Personally, I do an ice bath with an immersion in summer in Australia, and can be done in under 20 mins.

Secondly, there is zero risk of infection using an immersion chiller. Everything that is potentially harmful (harmful bacteria) dies at about 75C. So putting it into 100C is going to DEFINITELY kill everything.

Bottom line, I don't recommend no chill brewing, and highly suggest immersion or better.

Each to their own my Man!

I've brewed both with Imersion and No Chill and as for me not a difference .

I've got capabilities to use glycol if I wish to chill the wort after Flame out but don't think personally there is any great gain to me finished beer.

As for your protine bonds become better or what from quick chilling man I'd love to see a paper on this.
Not "all" commercial breweries use glycol more likely plate chillers for chilling using regular old tap water then glycol jacketed ferm tanks to knock it down to pitching temp pretty much like we do but on a much larger scale.

Anyhow you work in a commercial brewery down your way if I remember maybe you do it differently.
Cheers

 

[The Brew Mentor]

I used to no chill at home, not because I couldn't get down to Temp, but just to see how it worked and also for time and water saved.
I had good results with it and also feel like most of the break happens in the BK.
I'll have to get a picture next time I remember.
Currently I drop across a plate chiller and from knockout 212° to 65° in the Fermentor takes me 17 minutes.
I'd have to go back and revisit the no-chill at home to compare as it's been too long to recall taste differences.
What I did differently was to just cover the kettle with a lid and then a sanitized towel.
Unless you're in a cube, you'll be pulling in outside air and contamination during the cool down
The shrink isn't so noticable on small batches, but it is on larger ones.
Cheers

 

[Sunfire96]

So for starters, I don't doubt at all that no chill brewing can work. In my early days, I did it.

However, when you are chilling your wort, the faster the better. The quicker you chill it, the more the proteins will bond, and the longer the bonds will become. Commercially, this is why glycol is used. It's basically instant. Benefit of those protein bonds is that it locks in more flavour. This is why we also mash out.

When homebrewing, the rank of fastest to slowest are Glycol, Counterflow, Plate and Immersion, followed by no chill or ice bath. Personally, I do an ice bath with an immersion in summer in Australia, and can be done in under 20 mins.

Secondly, there is zero risk of infection using an immersion chiller. Everything that is potentially harmful (harmful bacteria) dies at about 75C. So putting it into 100C is going to DEFINITELY kill everything.

Bottom line, I don't recommend no chill brewing, and highly suggest immersion or better.

Never heard of longer protein chains locking in more flavor...got any references?

 

[GFHomebrew]

I'll just add yeast can't crawl as on only way in my mind that contamination can occur is dust particals floating in the air with yeast attached falling into fermenor but a slow cool down through the pasturisation temp will kill anything.

Remember even mash temps are pasturisation temps.

Infection I believe are the least of your worries.
Bitterness and potential astringency issues from hop contact time I rekon are a more bigger concern to think about.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Never heard of longer protein chains locking in more flavor...got any references?

Yeah I think there is that cold protine break argument for and against No Chill. But I've not had any clarity issues through a slow overnight chill down which I've herd is can be a haze causing issue.

 

[Sunfire96]

Yeah I think there is that cold protine break argument for and against No Chill. But I've not had any clarity issues through a slow overnight chill down which I've herd is can be a haze causing issue.

I've definitely heard the argument that it causes better clarity due to the cold break, but I've never heard anything about cold break affecting flavor