My attempt at designing a Red IPA

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Brewer #231827, Feb 19, 2021.

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  1. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    What do you think? All feedback is welcome, i am pretty new to designing beers.

    So far:
    9# maris otter
    1.5# munich
    0.5# Caramel 20L
    0.5# Caramel 80L
    0.25# Pale chocolate
    0.5# honey malt

    For hops
    60 min 1 oz chinook
    30 min 0.5 oz simcoe
    15 min 0.75 oz cascade
    And then I would do a flameout addition, 1 oz each of chinook, simcoe, cascade
     
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  2. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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  3. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Honey malt is very very sweet so I wouldn’t use it at all, but if you’re going to use it I’d reduce the amount for sure. It’s also too much caramel/crystal malt along with Munich and maris otter.

    I do like some Munich and maris otter is fine, as you seem to be looking for a strong malty flavor. But adding that much caramel malt and honey malt with it would be fairly sweet and cloying in my opinion. I’d lose the honey malt or reduce it, use crystal 80L only for the crystal malt, and keep the chocolate malt. But I do like a crisper IPA, especially one that has a malty flavor.

    For the hops, I’d hop with the first addition to get enough bitterness to balance the sweet malt like you have with the chinook, then add the 30 minute addition to 15 minutes or less.
     
  4. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    Hey thanks so much for the reply! I appreciate it. So if I updated it to this below, what do you think? Had to boost the ABV after dropping the honey and crystal malt.

    I also enjoy a crispier IPA and am truly looking to balance the malt and hops in this red IPA. Are there any other kinds of changes you can think of that you would recommend to the grist or hops? Substitutions or otherwise? Thanks again!



    10# maris otter
    1.5# munich
    0.5# Caramel 80L
    0.25# Pale chocolate

    For hops
    60 min 1 oz chinook
    15 min 0.5 oz simcoe
    15 min 0.75 oz cascade
    And then I would do a flameout addition, 1 oz each of chinook, simcoe, cascade
     
  5. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Curious, what is the purpose of the Pale Chocolate malt?
     
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  6. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    To be honest, I originally started with an Amber ale recipe. The beer turned out delicious, it had an incredible malt flavor but was just way too hoppy (which I actually really liked, but I am trying to brew within BJCP guidelines for this beer).

    So I decided to try and turn that recipe into a red IPA and the pale chocolate is just part of the amber ale "skeleton" that remains. I thought it might be interesting, maybe add a bit more complexity to the malt profile. But, as stated previously, I am very new to recipe design and don't quite understand what things taste like and how to make the different grains blend together.
     
  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Ate you a Dead Things... I mean Red Wings fan?
     
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  8. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    Oh you know it haha. Watching the game right now (not good). I see you’re a leaf fan!
     
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  9. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Little bit...
     
  10. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I like that better! I still might consider reducing the munich malt, BUT it depends on your goals here. You should have a dark reddish color with this recipe.
     
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  11. hundel

    hundel Member

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    #11 hundel, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
    My personal opinion is that the amber ale you started with is still too much of an influence on the beer. I’d approach it from the other direction and start with a classic IPA foundation which I’d try to make redder and maltier within reason. I’d expect the tasters eyes to affect their perception of the flavor so I’d make it red, but not noticeably sweet or toasty. A few decades ago American IPAs used high ratios of crystal and that approach is going to come off as a nice red IPA to today’s beer drinker with just a little adjustment.

    To me, that means no pale chocolate (dark chocolate might work in moderation but pale chocolate is going to make a statement here - possibly too much of one for me with this style). It might also mean no Munich since the Maris Otter will do its thing just fine without it (red IPAs with Munich probably are built around neutral pale US 2-row). I’d start with the Marris Otter, and 8-12 ounces of crystal (40? 80? a blend?) I’d remove the chocolate (and possibly the Munich) and I’d adjust the color with however many ounces of steeped roasted barley the color calculator gives you - probably just 2 oz.

    That’d give me a clear starting point for my first time with the recipe. I like the hops for this recipe as you have them but I’d be looking to find a way to make my IPA ruby red and malty without going too far, rather than how to make my amber ale more hoppy.

    by the way, the recipe search has really useful stats on the most common ingredients in a style. I’d browse that, but keep in mind it won’t provide useful guidance until you open several example recipes. For example, a lot of red ale recipes might use ingredients A and B but as alternatives, rather than together.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes!
     
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  12. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    Looks good. I think the pale chocolate will work well. Roasted grains definitely help to get a nice red color. I brew something close to a red ipa with 5 oz of chocolate rye and it worke wonderfully.
     
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  13. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    Tha
    Thank you for the reply!

    I actually picked up ingredients just before I got this message so I am going with the 2nd recipe I posted. I am planning on making this beer more than one time so I think I am going to go back and pick up some of the malts more tuned into what you are saying as well. I think I will keep the same hop schedule, but use more of a 2 row based recipe like you mention above. Should provide a good taste experiment for myself as I am very new to recipe design.

    What is the color calculator you mention? I don't really know anything about steeping roasted barley for specific colors and/or how to use a calculator to do that. I would be really interested in figuring that out though.

    Lastly, thank you for the suggestion on the recipe search! These are exactly the type of suggestions and experiences that I am looking to gain by being on this forum. I definitely plan on browsing through more recipes in this specific forum, especially since it seems that there are some very knowledgeable people on these forums.

    Thanks, and I will absolutely report back on how they turn out.
     
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  14. hundel

    hundel Member

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    #14 hundel, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
    Great! Sounds like a solid starting point. Admittedly, I am struggling to find my zone with Fawcett Pale Chocolate malt which made my last two batches of English bitter taste like a chocolate-shop.

    The color calculator I referred to is just the SRM number in the recipe page. The idea of steeping (even cold steeping) roast barley, or adding it very late to the mash is to move the SRM while reducing the chance of entering the danger zone for unwanted flavors from the color-adjusting malts. There are other ways to add color without affecting flavor but they’re outside of the basic brewing ingredients and I wouldn’t recommend them here.

    Note that (in my experience) roast barley is even more “ruby red” than pale chocolate malt when used in the right concentration. Hopefully my advice didn’t come across as trying to change what you are trying to achieve, but rather another way you might achieve it.
     
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  15. brewingandredwings

    brewingandredwings New Member

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    That is very cool. I wasn't really aware of steeping grains for color changing. I pretty much thought that was observed from extract or partial extract batches. I definitely am going to brew this beer more than once so I would really like to try this technique out on the next one.

    And absolutely not, you did not come across as trying to change things. I really appreciate the perspective and have learned more because of it. I wish my LHBS had this fawcett malt, seems like I have been hearing about it a lot lately.
     
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  16. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is relevant, if not, forgive me.
    For my black IPA, I "cap the mash" with dehusked carafa. Which means that I add the dark malt to the top of the mash with about 15 minutes to go in the mash. I actually add it when I turn the temperature up to perform the mash out. This gives me the dark color without imparting the roasty flavors. This sounds similar, adding the malt that imparts the color late in the mash.
     
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  17. RustyBeer

    RustyBeer Member

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    I do the same with my dark malt ⬆️
    - for red colors I like to use a few ounces of roasted malt or a black malt. Gives a nice rich red color without altering flavor
    - malty you could add some melanoiden malt.
     
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