Late pitching - worried about botulism

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Irish Beers, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Irish Beers

    Irish Beers New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Valencia , Spain
    #1 Irish Beers, Apr 7, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    Hello brewers,

    I have some issues as was interrupted in making beer and the wort was lying 48hrs at 18degc , 18.4Litres 1064SG before I pitched the yeast . There was pressure in the airlock and it had a creamy top on it and did not smell as the wort did the day when just made. It was a kit tin wort Brewferm Brune plus added grains...but also to make it worse I had a shortage of water late in day and did not sparge the grains until 12 hrs after they had been sitting in a pot ( the original non sparged grain wort was boiled for 20mins and in the fermenter already) but it´s the fact I sparged grains that had been sitting 12hrs at 18degc in my kitchen and added these extra litres late also .

    Could I have added bacteria as the damp bags of grains were sitting in the air for 12hrs and then ran hot water sparging into the fermenter and also the fact the total wort has sat 48hrs before pitching . It is pitched now and seems to be fermenting as normal but my bro says botulism can be deadly and not a good idea the 48hrs before pitching. I read online that it is most unlikely that botulism is possible from beer making .

    Any advice on this poorly made beer would be welcome .

    Cheers
    Tony
     
  2. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    2,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Back in the mountains
    The guys who make sours will chime in I'm sure but it sounds like you just made a sour beer. People do it on purpose all the time.
     
  3. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Wait...you ran sparge water directly into the fermenter? Without boiling it?
    If that's the case, there's zero chance that it's not full of bacteria and I wouldn't trust sparge PH to be low enough to discourage harmful ones.
    IF YOU BOILED all the wort that went into the fermenter for at least 10 minutes before pitching, it's probably okay to drink, though with obvious sour or wild yeast contaminationit may not be very good tasting.
    IF YOU DIDN'T BOIL any part of the wort that was sparged over 12-hour-old wet malt, I wouldn't drink it if you paid me.
    Good luck. :cool:
     
    ChicoBrewer likes this.
  4. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I've always heard nothing that can kill you can live in beer. I believe I read that in The Complete Joy of Homebrewing. So I doubt you got botulism in there. Lactic acid producing bacteria are most likely in there and you will have a somewhat sour beer.
     
  5. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not worth the risk... the beer won’t be what you originally intended. Dump it and brew it again would be my recommendation.
     
    ChicoBrewer likes this.
  6. Irish Beers

    Irish Beers New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Valencia , Spain
    Ok...so most agree here that it should be dumped and that is what I wiil do ...too much risk involved and possible wasting effort to contine too...many thanks for your important comments .
     
    Mase likes this.
  7. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The minute you start brewing your next batch, you’ll be thanking yourself. It’s natural to try and save, but the risks just aren’t worth it. Please tell us how the next brew goes as you know it’ll be perfect!
     
  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    #8 Mark Farrall, Apr 7, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    I'm with the dump it recommendation. I don't think it'll be worth the risk.

    Beer has two things going for it that protects you when you drink it and you've got no idea of the microbes that were used. There's very little that will hurt a human that can live in 3% ABV or greater or can live in lower pH ranges (say 4.6 or lower). So if it was living in the beer it's generally dead by the time you drink it (it's very common to find dead Enterobacter in Lambic beers).

    But before it died that microbe will likely have pumped out various proteins. And the microbe that really complicates this issue is C Botulinum. If the beer spent 24 hours or longer with butolism microbes at around room temperature and a pH above 4.6 then they could have created the botulinin poison. Botulinin will do horrific things to you if you drink enough of it and the only way to remove it is to boil it.

    Many home brewers routinely delay pitching, many far longer than the 48 hours you mention. But they focus on keeping the wort away from any contaminant until they can pitch the yeast. It's the extra sparge water added to the fermenter that's the killer for me.

    Edit: and as you say, it's pretty unlikely that there was Botulinum in the beer, but the consequences of being wrong are just too large for me in this scenario.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white