Hydrating Yeast

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Nugnut, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Nugnut

    Nugnut Member

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    I have read countless threads on this forum and others regarding starters and hydrating yeast and still did not know which way to go.

    On Saturday I brewed and dry yeasted a brew and it seems that is had performed as it always has with my brewing technique.

    On Monday, a public holiday in Aus, I did another brew and decided to try hydrating the same yeast. I pitched it and today the results are amazing. The hydrated yeast has drastically overtaken the other and is large and healthy. I know what I will be doing from now on.
     
  2. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    It's my understanding that dry yeast doesn't need a starter, since there's a ton more cells than the equivalent of liquid yeast.
    But, like you said, you have to ease them into waking up. Just dumping them into the wort will shock and kill a good bit of them.
    And yes, there are those that don't do that and still make good beer. But the extra 15 minutes waiting for it to hydrate isn't that bad
     
  3. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    I do not hydrate dry yeast and that has never been an issue. It is much easier and the outcome is the same: you will make beer.
     
  4. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    I once asked Brewer’s Best why their kit instructions tell you specifically NOT to rehydrate the included dry yeast, but the yeast packet states to rehydrate it. They told me that they found that their customers tended to kill the yeast by not waiting for the water to cool down before rehydrating.
     
  5. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    That seems more like user error than anything wrong with the process itself
     
  6. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. And interesting that they decided to solve the issue that way.
     
  7. The Brew Mentor

    The Brew Mentor Well-Known Member

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    What do the scientists that work with it tell you?
     
  8. The Brew Mentor

    The Brew Mentor Well-Known Member

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    From Fermentis even though the package tell you to "Spinkle into Wort"

    REHYDRATION INSTRUCTIONS: Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes. Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel. Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition.

    Viable cells at packaging: > 6 x 109 /g
    Not a very precise cell count!

    From Lellamand

    Rehydration of Nottingham is recommended for use, and will reduce osmotic stress on the yeast when rehydrated and pitched in liquid form. Rehydration guidelines are quite simple, and present a much lower risk of contamination than a starter, which is unnecessary with dried active yeast. Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight in clean, sterilized water at 30-35°C (86-95F). Do not use wort, or distilled or reverse osmosis water, as loss in viability will result. DO NOT STIR. Leave undisturbed for 15 minutes, then stir to suspend yeast completely, and leave it for 5 more minutes at 30-35°C. Then adjust temperature to that of the wort and inoculate without delay. Attemperate in steps at 5-minute intervals of 10°C to the temperature of the wort by mixing aliquots of wort. Do not allow attemperation to be carried out by natural heat loss. This will take too long and could result in loss of viability or vitality. Temperature shock, at greater than 10°C, will cause formation of USAGE Storage REHYDRATION The pitching rate may be adjusted to achieve a desired beer style or to suit processing conditions Nottingham has an ABV tolerance of 14%. For beers above 14%, the yeast will require a nutrient such as 1g/hL of Servomyces. A pitching rate of 25g per 100L of Nottingham can be used in the production of Ciders. Find your exact recommended pitching rate with our Pitch Rate Calculator in our Brewers Corner at www.lallemandbrewing.com petite mutants leading to long-term or incomplete fermentation and possible formation of undesirable flavors. Nottingham yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The yeast contains an adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is unnecessary to aerate wort upon first use. When using Lallemand Brewing Yeasts, you may repitch the yeast just as you would any other type of yeast according to your brewery’s SOP for yeast handling.

    Living Yeast Cells ≥ 5 x 109 per gram of dry yeast
     
  9. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    I have read you can loose up to half of the yeast if you pitch directly without rehydrating. Rehydrating is so easy I don't really see a reason not too. Even for the lazy brewer.
     
  10. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    People are different, that’s all. If we all thought and acted the same way, we wouldn’t have a forum. I used to rehydrate in the beginning, some 20 years ago. It didn’t last long. I haven’t bothered with it in a long time.
     
  11. chub1

    chub1 Active Member

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    I now re hydrate all my yeasts.Simply sterelise a container,boil water and cool(mixing with a little cold) it to 30c,stick the dried yeast in,cover with some paper towel and leave alone for 15 minutes or thereabouts before pitching.
    An 11 gram pack will give me two brews of 5/6 litres.
     
  12. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    I just use tap water because I am lazy. Never had any issues.
     
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  13. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    I boiled it, and let it cool. Doesn’t take any extra time if you boil it soon enough so it’s cool by the time you need to rehydrate and pitch it.
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Pitch rate being as important to beer quality as it is and rehydrating preserving up to half the cells in a packet of dry yeast, I know what I'm doing when I use dry yeast! After all, using liquid yeast I make a starter to get to the same cell count as a packet of rehydrated dry yeast, the time investment to rehydrate is minimal and the results are what I want. Of course, I got a bunch of judges' score sheets back that effectively said my beers were too clean, so maybe I should go back to underpitching and neglecting temperature control.... ;-)

    Nah.
     
  15. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I judged some Belgian Wit entries a while back and one was a perfect example of an extremely well-executed beer that just didn't exhibit the yeast character that it should have. It was definitely too clean - pretty perfect Belgian Blonde, in fact, but lacking the definitive flavor that you'd look for in a Witbier.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I'm controlling pitch rate and fermentation temperature closely, the end result of which is you get a very clean beer. It's a single data point but I don't taste a lot of really clean homebrew, even at our Homebrewer's Night where we get together and taste each others' beers. So in some cases, I think the judges aren't expecting clean stuff.
     
  17. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I definitely concur!
    In my brew club I try to be the pain-in-the-ass that pushes for better beer across the board. I'd like to see us have a meeting where any pro brewer in town could sit in and sample all the beers that were brought to share and not find fault with any of them.
    Far too often homebrewed beer is seen as different from pro-brewed beer and it shouldn't be that way. And I definitely think that (many?...most?) homebrew contests are skewed toward a relatively lower standard.
    Even in our informal tastings or club competitions we get away with too much. Recently I put my lager-style Cream Ale in for judging at our quarterly club competition. The category was "Lawnmower" Beer with session-strength versions of several different styles being accepted. It's as good a beer as you could want and couldn't be more perfect for the "style" we were judging. It literally got zero votes because everybody thought we'd thrown in a "ringer" commercial beer. BTW, I wasn't the least bit bothered by that. Having my beer pass for a commercial-level beer was better than bringing home the "trophy". ;)
    We should be brewing beer, not making homebrew.
     
  18. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    +1 , why not follow the package instructions? :p
     
  19. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I think you can mess up a good beer just by letting yeast get corrupted by poor handling, I rehydrate mine by puring half the wort in the vessel add my dry or wet yest then pour the rest on top then shake,stir or pour to mix well, for me its about total time the yeast are alive outside the wort, the less time the better
     
  20. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That procedure doesn't stop osmotic pressure from killing off up to half the yeast. I've found that sticking to recommended pitch rates gives a better beer so I rehydrate dry yeast, do starters for liquid yeast, build up yeast for big beers, use multiple packs of dry yeast, etc. Of course, with my manic temperature control and pitch rates, I'm getting feedback that my beers are too clean. C'est la vie. It's what I like. As with the discussion on competitions and judging, there's no right or wrong answer. If what you get is meeting your expectations, your process is working. Our customers are ourselves, no need to satisfy "the market", the judges or anyone else out there. The science is clear: Pitching your yeast directly into the wort kills off about half of it. Pitching recommended rates results in fewer by-products - read esters and off-flavors. Styles are the consensus as to what a beer with a specific label should be. We're not bound by that. So if rehydrating works for you, rehydrate. If direct pitching your yeast works for you, direct pitch. If underpitching and the resultant ester profile is what you like, underpitch. One of the reasons we brew is to get the beer we want to drink. Whatever works to produce that beer is what you should be doing. For beginners, I think it's critical to learn first how to do it "right", then learn what deviations from "right" cause.
     
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