Getting a dense yeast cake by long primary/conditioning fermentaion

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Gledison, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    Hi everyone,
    After 4 days of fermentaion (Nottingham dry yeast) the final gravity was reached. I´ve added the dry hopps and wait for 5 days before bottlling.
    My trub was very floffy and i had a lot of lost. I´ve checked in the Forum and some Folks leave it for 2 -3 weeks in the Primary in order to get a dense cake.
    My question would be: if i leave it for 2 weeks in the Primary after all the sugar is consumed (which was 4 days), the yeast would not starve?
    i see People having a very nice (like cement) cake which makes botlling so less annoying and with no loss.
    any thoughts?
    thanks
     
  2. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Four days is too soon to do just about anything. You could add dry hops to the primary at that point, but if you're using secondary you should wait at least a little longer. Whatever you do, you should be fermenting for 10 to 14 days before bottling and 2-3 weeks usually results in better beer. No, the yeast won't starve... they'll go inactive and drop out. There are still enough in suspension even in very clear beer to carry on enough fermentation for carbonation/bottle conditioning
     
  3. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    Cool,
    Ehen you say fermenting for 10 days you meant only fermentation or ferm. + conditioning? If primary fermentation is finished in 4 days why wait longer? Due to flavor development? Or just to get all settle down for a dense yeast cake?
    PS: no secondary applies here :S
     
  4. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Fermentation takes place in stages. The yeast reproduce 2 or 3 times and produce esters during the early phase. They're using sugar and producing alcohol during this time, but they really start going at it when the colony has grown and then the sugar is consumed fairly quickly. After the sugar, or most of it, is used up, they'll start consuming some of the esters, alcohol precursors and other compounds that cause off flavors. That "clean-up" phase is extremely important in making beer that really is clean-tasting and doesn't have any off-flavors.
    Primary fermentation should last 7 to 10 days. By then, totally depending on OG and yeast pitch, the beer should be finished and cleaned up and the yeast starting to drop out. Another 10 days in primary or secondary doesn't hurt a thing.
    Sounds like you got 9 days before bottling and that's not too bad, but you'd have done well to at least cold-crash for a day or two to let things settle better.
    Two to three weeks, from brew day to bottling or kegging, including or in addition to cold-crashing for a day or two, is very, very common. Don't rush it. ;)
     
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  5. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    Woow, very nice explanation, thanks for that.
    Next batch is fermenting and i will follow your timmings suggestion ;)
    Cheers
     
  6. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I don't want,to derail this thread with bad brewing practices but I've very rearly left my primary for more than 2 weeks. I've looked back at lagers I've done and even they have a short 2 week primary ferment life time. Cold crashing your brew will create that solid compact trub your looking for I even have trouble squirting mine,out with the hose when I'm done.
     
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  7. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    I am drinking most of my beers by 14 days.
     
  8. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    When do you think is the best time during the fermenting process to cold crash?
    thanks
     
  9. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    Once you have reached FG or fermentation has stalled.
     
  10. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I've kegged beers in 2 weeks and it can certainly be done. If you have good temperature control and decent pitch rate, you can get most beers to finish in a week and clean up in a few days. Last time I pulled a beer a little quick, I had noticeable acetaldehyde and that's just a rookie mistake. I've consistently had the best beers when I'm packaging at 18 to 24 days after at least a day or two cold crash.
     
  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    My latest beer is a tad under 14 days old atm primary was for 5-6 days its been crashing since i decrased temp 5c every few hours to try and reduce sucking airlock liquid back into fermentor. Ill keg this beer tonight. Its an ale i used an aggresive yeast and pitched 1.5 lt starter it rocked hard for 3 days then for next 3 days it stayed put in hydrometer sample.

    Ive got no beer on tap atm so i guess thats why im pushing it :).
     
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  12. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    New beer, new experience :)
    I´ve noticed that im getting a very flocky Sedimentation during Fermentation when im using Irish Moos. On my first attempt (when i posted here primarily) i also got that flocky Sediment and in volume it was quite a lot. However i´ve noticed that that floculate could be easily "broken" in a fine mass.
    This time, once i´ve got the same flocky Sediment, i decided to shake the bottom of the bucket in order to break that floculate. It worked. I got a very fine and low volume Sediment at the bottom (after a couple of hours).
    I believed that is ok to shake the Fermenter to do that or someone wouldnt suggest that for any reason? (i know im loosing some CO2 but i believe the priming will do the Job later)
    thanks for any comment :)
     
  13. Edan Z

    Edan Z Member

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    This sounds a lot like what is described in brew like a monk for Trappist ales. Primary for 5-6 days (Westmalle), then secondary at 46ºF for up to 4 weeks.

    One thing I'm still trying to figure out, though, is if they remove the yeast cake before secondary. I don't suppose the yeast can do much at those cold temperatures, or can it?
     
  14. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Sounds more like a lager yeast than a Belgian ale. My understanding of most Belgian yeasts is that they need to be ramped up in temp to attenuate fully. White Labs lists optimum fermentation temp at 66 to72 F.
     
  15. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    After your beer has cleared and dropped, it's probably best not to disturb it too much. The problem is less about losing suspended CO2 than introducing oxygen after fermentation activity has ceased. That oxygen will cause the beer to stale and get oxidized off-flavors.
     
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  16. Gledison

    Gledison Active Member

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    i understand that, but when i shake (a Little) still CO2 is pushing out through the arilock. Well, is the only way sofar that i can get a dense cake :(
     
  17. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    You should be fine, then. I find that just about any yeast I use tends to be pretty solid and dense after at least a few days of cold-crashing. Some yeasts do it at room temp, but cold-crash works every time.
     
  18. Edan Z

    Edan Z Member

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    #18 Edan Z, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
    Yes, they pitch around 64ºF and let it free rise to around 68-75ºF over those 5-6 days, then crash. I haven't actually tried this myself. But it's on my list of things to experiment with.
     
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  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense. I don't consider that secondary fermentation, but rather cold-crashing or lagering. Some brewers consider that secondary fermentation only applies to transferring to another vessel, but I think of secondary as the stage between the time the krausen falls and the point that it's chilled whether it's transferred or not.
    Once FG is reached and it's chilled, yeast will go dormant and drop out and cease to have any real effect on the beer, other than by simply not being present in a significant way, leaving it clearer and cleaner tasting.
     
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  20. ShaneBond

    ShaneBond New Member

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    good recipe of the yeast cake. Can you tell me that how much time fermentation process takes place?

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