German Helles Lager

[Nosybear]

My schedule for German lagers is 144/156/170, 30 minutes per rest, ten minute batch sparge. I see no reason to use anything other than 34/70, two or three packets (it's cheap), rehydrated. Try not to splash but don't obsess over oxygen - no need to - take reasonable precautions like covering the mash with aluminum foil (later, poke holes in it to assist the recirculation). As to grist, I like about 80% German Pilsner, Avangard if I can get it, and about 20% Vienna. Likely TMI, but Helles is all about process - the grist and hopping are so simple that any error you make will come through in the beer. Oh, one more thing: German noble hops, accept no substitute.

 

[Johnwk]

I'm pretty sure I end up mashing too long at 148, but I've often done 45 minutes and then moved to 158 or so. It's totally possible that most, if not all the starches are converted, but I think that higher rest finds something because my efficiency usually goes up, especially if I have trouble getting to mash-out temp and end up hanging out at 160-168 for a long time before denaturing at 170.
I've used S-23 dry yeast a lot, but this is a perfect time of year to get WLP860 seasonal Helles yeast. I used that for my first lagers...very good yeast.

Thanks, JA, I've never done it that way before. I assume you just infuse the mash with near boiling water to raise it to 158 or so?

I understand that WLP838 (or Wyeast 2308) also works reasonably well with this type of lager (I'm not able to obtain WLP860 here).

 

[Mark D Pirate]

FRESH german hops ! Quality fresh malts and meticulous attention to detail .....just like our Germanic friends are loved and loathed for the world over .
I will test myself with a helles again soon as the last attempt showed some flaws

 

[J A]

Thanks, JA, I've never done it that way before. I assume you just infuse the mash with near boiling water to raise it to 158 or so?

I understand that WLP838 (or Wyeast 2308) also works reasonably well with this type of lager (I'm not able to obtain WLP860 here).

Yes...since my system has some lag in heating the pump and plumbing, the step is a little slow when adding the calculated amount of boiling water, but I'll try to boost it pretty close to the desired temp and make up the difference by adding heat. When I do a step from protein rest (not necessary with most modern malt, but not a bad idea, either) the lag can be pretty pronounced and slow. I don't mind a slow raise up to 148 as it helps with fermentability. The step to 158 should be as quick as possible, though.
I think most basic lager yeasts will give you good results. Helles lagers are not particularly complex beers and most yeasts cited as appropriate for the style are pretty versatile and forgiving. Good filtered water, clean mash, clean fermentation with plenty of yeast and reasonable care in packaging will give you a solid beer.

 

[Nosybear]

There isn't a lot of difference in the German lager strains - feel free to substitute freely. The dry yeast is easy to use and cheap enough that you can use extra packets and not make a starter.

 

[Johnwk]

My schedule for German lagers is 144/156/170, 30 minutes per rest, ten minute batch sparge. I see no reason to use anything other than 34/70, two or three packets (it's cheap), rehydrated. Try not to splash but don't obsess over oxygen - no need to - take reasonable precautions like covering the mash with aluminum foil (later, poke holes in it to assist the recirculation). As to grist, I like about 80% German Pilsner, Avangard if I can get it, and about 20% Vienna. Likely TMI, but Helles is all about process - the grist and hopping are so simple that any error you make will come through in the beer. Oh, one more thing: German noble hops, accept no substitute.

Do you heat your mash on a stove, or is this done with infusions? I'm surprised that 34/70 comes out that good - I always assumed that one should use liquid yeasts for the best lagers. Why do you cover the mash with aluminum foil? I can see why you would poke holes in it later, but why cover it first without holes? Does this provide an oxygen barrier? I'm surprised too at the amount of Vienna. I've heard that about 10% is optimal, although I've never tried it at 20%. Absolutely noble hops! I just came back from New Zealand and Australia where they ruin a good lager by adding IPA hops (Citra, Cascade, etc.). Lagers with noble hops is almost unheard of there. So are sour beers.

 

[Johnwk]

Yes...since my system has some lag in heating the pump and plumbing, the step is a little slow when adding the calculated amount of boiling water, but I'll try to boost it pretty close to the desired temp and make up the difference by adding heat. When I do a step from protein rest (not necessary with most modern malt, but not a bad idea, either) the lag can be pretty pronounced and slow. I don't mind a slow raise up to 148 as it helps with fermentability. The step to 158 should be as quick as possible, though.
I think most basic lager yeasts will give you good results. Helles lagers are not particularly complex beers and most yeasts cited as appropriate for the style are pretty versatile and forgiving. Good filtered water, clean mash, clean fermentation with plenty of yeast and reasonable care in packaging will give you a solid beer.

I also have difficulty raising my mash temperature to 170 with infusions. The best I can usually get is in the low 160's. I generally try to sparge and drain and quickly put the pot on the fire. It's good to know that I can leave it at about 158 for some time. Is 15 minutes enough?

 

[Nosybear]

Do you heat your mash on a stove, or is this done with infusions? I'm surprised that 34/70 comes out that good - I always assumed that one should use liquid yeasts for the best lagers. Why do you cover the mash with aluminum foil? I can see why you would poke holes in it later, but why cover it first without holes? Does this provide an oxygen barrier? I'm surprised too at the amount of Vienna. I've heard that about 10% is optimal, although I've never tried it at 20%. Absolutely noble hops! I just came back from New Zealand and Australia where they ruin a good lager by adding IPA hops (Citra, Cascade, etc.). Lagers with noble hops is almost unheard of there. So are sour beers.

Wow! One at a time: I add heat using infusions - the mash calculator here gets you close enough for homebrew, heat a little extra water in case you need to adjust. The 34/70 yeast is the same strain as the Weihenstephan, just in dry form, easier to handle and I don't have to make a starter. Liquid is not necessarily better than dry yeast and a higher pitch rate has more effect than the strain, at least generally speaking. I cover the mash with aluminum foil to keep air out, then perforate to keep from disturbing the grain bed when recirculating. Okay, I like Vienna malt, a richer malt flavor than I can get with voodoo like LoDo brewing, and a touch of Melanoidin (maybe an ounce or two) can get you decoction-like flavors. And I like my Helles and Pils a little more golden than many, probably a result of having lived in Germany for several years. I've tasted lagers made with American-style hops. While they can be good, replacing the floral spiciness of German noble hops with the citrussy Americans makes a completely different beer. Not bad per se, but "nicht mein Bier."

 

[Nosybear]

I also have difficulty raising my mash temperature to 170 with infusions. The best I can usually get is in the low 160's. I generally try to sparge and drain and quickly put the pot on the fire. It's good to know that I can leave it at about 158 for some time. Is 15 minutes enough?

Sparging - all you're doing is getting the sugar out of the grain. If you can get into the 160's, fine, in fact, a bit safer - you don't extract tannins at cooler temperatures but you want warm enough to dissolve the sugars. Time, well, if you keep it cool and your water isn't alkaline, time for a batch sparge isn't that critical. Ten minutes is fine, fifteen, who cares? And if you walk off and leave the mash at 158 for a while, don't worry, have a homebrew, nothing bad will happen.

 

[Johnwk]

Wow! One at a time: I add heat using infusions - the mash calculator here gets you close enough for homebrew, heat a little extra water in case you need to adjust. The 34/70 yeast is the same strain as the Weihenstephan, just in dry form, easier to handle and I don't have to make a starter. Liquid is not necessarily better than dry yeast and a higher pitch rate has more effect than the strain, at least generally speaking. I cover the mash with aluminum foil to keep air out, then perforate to keep from disturbing the grain bed when recirculating. Okay, I like Vienna malt, a richer malt flavor than I can get with voodoo like LoDo brewing, and a touch of Melanoidin (maybe an ounce or two) can get you decoction-like flavors. And I like my Helles and Pils a little more golden than many, probably a result of having lived in Germany for several years. I've tasted lagers made with American-style hops. While they can be good, replacing the floral spiciness of German noble hops with the citrussy Americans makes a completely different beer. Not bad per se, but "nicht mein Bier."

Thank you - great answers!

 

[Johnwk]

Sparging - all you're doing is getting the sugar out of the grain. If you can get into the 160's, fine, in fact, a bit safer - you don't extract tannins at cooler temperatures but you want warm enough to dissolve the sugars. Time, well, if you keep it cool and your water isn't alkaline, time for a batch sparge isn't that critical. Ten minutes is fine, fifteen, who cares? And if you walk off and leave the mash at 158 for a while, don't worry, have a homebrew, nothing bad will happen.

I was more concerned about denaturing the enzymes, which doesn't occur until the temperature is about 170 or higher. My mash tun isn't large enough to add enough sparge water to heat it up to 170, even if I add boiling water. The best I can do is in the low 160's. Thus I need to get the drained wort to the burner as quickly as possible.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

thats another debatable topic the 170 mashout isn't really a huge factor if you cant do it, you can just sparge either way with your mash temp and it will be fine

 

[Johnwk]

thats another debatable topic the 170 mashout isn't really a huge factor if you cant do it, you can just sparge either way with your mash temp and it will be fine

I've also heard it's not as big a factor as it usually was suspected of being. Are there any recent studies confirming this?

 

[Hogarthe]

I never do a mashout. Single infusion 148-156F depending on what I'm brewing, then batch sparge with 168-170F water. It doesn't get up to 170 since some of the heat gets absorbed by the cooler temp grain. Never noticed any problems, the beer always comes out good. I know this isn't exactly a scientific study, but you could do 2 of the same beer one with mashout and one without. I doubt there will be a very big difference.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I'm not really sure but the only thing heating up does is make the grain husk a little more soft so you can sparge more sugar out, it also stops the enzymes from converting so if you’re not fly sparging or slow batch sparging it’s not even necessary as a matter of fact I’ve cold sparged and the beer came out the same

 

[Johnwk]

I never do a mashout. Single infusion 148-156F depending on what I'm brewing, then batch sparge with 168-170F water. It doesn't get up to 170 since some of the heat gets absorbed by the cooler temp grain. Never noticed any problems, the beer always comes out good. I know this isn't exactly a scientific study, but you could do 2 of the same beer one with mashout and one without. I doubt there will be a very big difference.

But you always wonder if it could come out 'better'

 

[Johnwk]

I'm not really sure but the only thing heating up does is make the grain husk a little more soft so you can sparge more sugar out, it also stops the enzymes from converting so if you’re not fly sparging or slow batch sparging it’s not even necessary as a matter of fact I’ve cold sparged and the beer came out the same

When you think about it, by denaturing the enzymes, all you're doing is preventing further conversion. But further conversion seems to be no issue - in fact, wouldn't it help increase efficiency? Thus I wonder why the concern about denaturing in the first place. As for heating the husks for more efficient sparging, I can understand that, but that doesn't necessarily require a 170 degree temperature.

 

[Nosybear]

I've also heard it's not as big a factor as it usually was suspected of being. Are there any recent studies confirming this?

Haven't read any studies but consider this: Your enzymes have already converted most of the sugars by the time you get to the mash-out (a step I never do, by the way). Not much is going to change with your profile if you leave the mash at 158 degrees. Anything over that is denaturing enzymes anyway.

 

[Nosybear]

But you always wonder if it could come out 'better'

Simple suggestion: Experiment. Mashout is used by "big" brewers to freeze the wort profile where they want it. Their primary criterion for "good" is "every batch is the same." So when their many metrics tell them the wort is where they want it, they mash-out to freeze it there, helping them keep every batch the same. If repeatability is your criterion for "good", then a mash-out is a necessary step. My key quality metric is not that every batch of a given beer comes out exactly the same so a mash-out is not a great concern of mine.

Knowing why a thing is done is pretty much key in deciding whether to do it or not. There are thousands of helpful suggestions being posted right now, this one included. By knowing how things work and why a process step is used, you can help sort among those thousands to the few that really work for you. Think of it this way: An amateur carpenter tries to make everything perfect, while a professional knows those things to really focus on.

 

[Mark D Pirate]

I just came back from New Zealand and Australia where they ruin a good lager by adding IPA hops (Citra, Cascade, etc.). Lagers with noble hops is almost unheard of there. So are sour beers.

There are traditional German lagers made here , sours are an expanding part of our market as well .
A friend of mine makes nothing but farmhouse and sour ales .
Where abouts in Australia were you ?