Fresh Water Calcs

[Bigbre04]

Hey all,

Just got back my water test from ward labs. I need to create a profile, but i manually updated this into the calculator.

How does this look?

Balanced 1
https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=8SF7ZC1

Balanced 2
https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=SBHXXKC

Conductivity -- .62 mmho/cm
Cations me/L -- 6.9
Anions me/L -- 6.4
Na -- 60
Ca -- 36.8
Mg -- 28
CaCO3 -- 209
K -- 5
NO3-N -- <.1
SO4-S -- 46
Carbonate -- <1
HCO3 -- 137
Total Alkalinity CaCO3 -- 113
Chloride - Cl -- 44
Total Phos ppm-P -- .03
Fe -- .01
pH -- 7.6

 

[Brew Cat]

either one for an Amber
for a pilsner I would probably cut it with distilled or RO
I'm not a water expert but the sodium and magnesium are to high for a light beer IMO

 

[Yooper]

Magnesium is too high (mine is 26 ppm and I think it’s too high a bit also), but my biggest takeaway is the S04-S. If that’s a Ward lab report, that -S means that in order to get the correct sulfate reading for brewing you'll need to convert the elemental sulfate reading listed on the report as SO4-S to SO4 by multiplying the Ward figure by 3.

So that means the sulfate is pretty high. The CaCO3 is also pretty high. The CaCO3 can be helped with acid, acidic grains, etc. but I’d consider dilute with RO water to drop both of those.

 

[Daniel Parshley]

Magnesium is too high (mine is 26 ppm and I think it’s too high a bit also), but my biggest takeaway is the S04-S. If that’s a Ward lab report, that -S means that in order to get the correct sulfate reading for brewing you'll need to convert the elemental sulfate reading listed on the report as SO4-S to SO4 by multiplying the Ward figure by 3.

So that means the sulfate is pretty high. The CaCO3 is also pretty high. The CaCO3 can be helped with acid, acidic grains, etc. but I’d consider dilute with RO water to drop both of those.

I'm on the same aquifer and gave up on the water and buy distilled for everything but brown ale. Still, I cut the tap (well ) water with some distilled for the brown, too. I have an aerator and a sediment/carbon filter on my tap.

pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 291
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.49
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.3 / 5.2 ppm
Sodium, Na 38
Potassium, K 5
Calcium, Ca 43.5
Magnesium, Mg 16
Total Hardness, CaCO3 177
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 21
Chloride, Cl 14
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 215
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 178
Total Phosphorus, P 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

Reviewed By : Nick Ward 3/15/2021

 

[Brew Cat]

Hey all,

Just got back my water test from ward labs. I need to create a profile, but i manually updated this into the calculator.

How does this look?

Balanced 1
https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=8SF7ZC1

Balanced 2
https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=SBHXXKC

Conductivity -- .62 mmho/cm
Cations me/L -- 6.9
Anions me/L -- 6.4
Na -- 60
Ca -- 36.8
Mg -- 28
CaCO3 -- 209
K -- 5
NO3-N -- <.1
SO4-S -- 46
Carbonate -- <1
HCO3 -- 137
Total Alkalinity CaCO3 -- 113
Chloride - Cl -- 44
Total Phos ppm-P -- .03
Fe -- .01
pH -- 7.6

I'm curious
is this the same water you have always used ?
what changed that you needed a new water analysis?

 

[Bigbre04]

I'm curious
is this the same water you have always used ?
what changed that you needed a new water analysis?

yup same water.

Life on a small island where the population triples during the beach season. I should be checking it more frequently!

Magnesium is too high (mine is 26 ppm and I think it’s too high a bit also), but my biggest takeaway is the S04-S. If that’s a Ward lab report, that -S means that in order to get the correct sulfate reading for brewing you'll need to convert the elemental sulfate reading listed on the report as SO4-S to SO4 by multiplying the Ward figure by 3.

Yep ward labs report. Ill correct that in my calc....

So i left the CaCl at 20g and dropped the gypsum from 20 to 0g. if i add 35g of chaulk i can bring up the Ca to the green without further increasing my SO4.

So that means the sulfate is pretty high. The CaCO3 is also pretty high. The CaCO3 can be helped with acid, acidic grains, etc. but I’d consider dilute with RO water to drop both of those.

RO water isnt really an option. I could possibly build in a carbon filter setup, but that would be very complicated.

I wonder how much a carbon filter would do????


Water Chemistry is not something that i have really spent a lot of time working on. There are a handful of breweries in town and i am fairly certain that all but maybe 1 of them uses city water and basic filtration.

RO at scale is VERY wasteful.

 

[Bigbre04]

actually ditching the chaulk and going for 10g of slaked lime seems to be the most effective.

I also use acid in every batch based on pH. shooting for ~5.1-.2 for light colored beers and ~5.3-5.4 for darker beers.

 

[Craigerrr]

Re your source water. I agree, Magnesium and Sodium seem pretty high, not much you can do with that except to cut it with RO or distilled. How are your lagers?
I'm no expert on lagers (the only one I have ever brewed was Bulins Shady Bo) my understanding is that lagers are best with relatively, if not very soft water.

 

[Bigbre04]

Re your source water. I agree, Magnesium and Sodium seem pretty high, not much you can do with that except to cut it with RO or distilled. How are your lagers?
I'm no expert on lagers (the only one I have ever brewed was Bulins Shady Bo) my understanding is that lagers are best with relatively, if not very soft water.

i actually make a lot of lagers. I think they are pretty good!

I have been chatting with some other local brewers and confirmed that none of them use RO water. im gonna get some lime and try it.

 

[Brew Cat]

well Im just saying you are close to the upper limit before you start tasting the Mg and Na so if your lager is tasting good that is great
how does this report compare to the previous water report ? if the #s are close don't change anything

 

[Bigbre04]

well Im just saying you are close to the upper limit before you start tasting the Mg and Na so if your lager is tasting good that is great
how does this report compare to the previous water report ? if the #s are close don't change anything

pretty similar honestly. my adding Gypsum though sends the numbers out of the "normal" zone...

Carbonating my Red Ale and absolutely loving the flavor. 5.4% and a deep red color. Pretty pumped for this batch.

 

[Bigbre04]

so i am back to this again.

in the readout it lists:
Bi_carbonate HCO3 -- 137
and

Total Alkalinity CaCO3 -- 113

in the calculator should I click alkalinity as bicarbonate or alkalinity?

I am thinking that i will brew a Marzen tomorrow and let it mature for about a month in either kegs or use one of my Unis as a Brite.

This is where i am at with it:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1649298

@Donoroto

Thoughts????

Is this a case where using Balanced 2 would be better? i pulled my water already and added 20gyp and 20CaCl2 to it, i can dump it and pull different salts. I keep some random salts on hand, but i dont have slaked lime on hand and i would have to order it as walmart doesnt stock it.

I have CaCO3(chalk), Epsom, CaCl2, Gypsum, and Salt on hand. Will order some Slaked Lime or should i get Lye? I hate powdered versions of those things but i can deal with that.


when i am using the calc on balanced 1 a combo of:
20g CaCl2
10g Chalk
15g Slaked lime
gets me 3 greens. i cant reduce the reds.

on balanced 2:
10g Gypsum
40g CaCl2(anhy)
20g Baking soda
10g Slaked Lime

gets me 4 greens and without lowering the HCO3 too far(just realized that this is reduced by the Lime).

This shit is super confusing.


Another question:

adding all of this base(Slaked Lime) will require me to add more Acid to balance the mash out right????

 

[Brew Cat]

I think you look good using balanced II for the Marzen
The recipe is fine
I don't think you need caulk or lime
Don't play with it to much it won't make much difference anyway

 

[Bigbre04]

I think you look good using balanced II for the Marzen
The recipe is fine
I don't think you need caulk or lime
Don't play with it to much it won't make much difference anyway

So leave the 20gyp and 20CaCl2?

the marzen will be fine with my normal salt loads.

I was more interested in getting my light colored beers into a better spot.


At my former big brewery we didnt really mess with salts too much beyond CaCl2 and Gyp. We ditched one of the 2 for the belgian wit i dont remember which. We most likely had the same water there that we do here since we are all on Savannah city water.

Im gonna roll with what i have been doing for the last 4 years. But i will order the lime and keep messing with this shit.

 

[Brew Cat]

I would drop the gypsum for the light lager and the wit as well IMO

 

[Bigbre04]

I would drop the gypsum for the light lager and the wit as well IMO

So i spent time chatting with a former classmate. he mentioned that the more important thing is the ratio of cl to sulfates.

he also mentioned that AI can do a lot of the heavy lifting on the math side of this. with my stupid brewhouse the calculators are tough.

i entered the recipe and all my specs. also added my water calculations and brewhouse type(all in one) with a double mash in.

it said to add 65g of cacl2.

that is a lot more then i have used here before. but it was building up the ratio based on the beer style(marzen)

it also estimated the total acid additions which are actually fairly accurate based on my experience.

SUPER interesting.

I think that splitting my mash really throws off the calculators on here, but i could be wrong.

 

[Bigbre04]

I just added the 65g to the calculator on here for balanced 2 and it puts the cl in the green. it all stays in the "good" range.

this shit is so complicated. im gonna try the 65g since it doesnt throw flags on this calculator and "works" with the balanced 2

 

[Brew Cat]

Yeah I played with your profile and can confirm the extra CaCl if you want
I do 2:1 CaCl:SO4 for malty and flip it for hoppy and 1:1 for neutral

 

[Bigbre04]

Yeah I played with your profile and can confirm the extra CaCl if you want
I do 2:1 CaCl:SO4 for malty and flip it for hoppy and 1:1 for neutral

so you are saying 65g cacl is correct for malty.

so i have not done a hoppy or neutral recipe yet.

i have to get my grain pulled and milled. ill run my golden lager and my session juicy and see what i get when i get time.

 

[Donoroto]

A maerzen should be malty.

I have a recipe that I like, but @Josh Hughes is the maerzen-meister around here I think.