Fermenter project

Bigbre04 said:
if a magnet sticks to the side it is not 304
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Not necessarily. If 304 is formed or worked cold, it will develop magnetic properties. If it needs to be non-magnetic, further processing needs to be performed. I believe it needs to be heated and slowly cooled (but I'm not 100% on that).

The reason I bring it up is because I panicked when I bought a new keg. It was made in China and a magnet stuck to it. I thought I was ripped off until I tested a German keg and realized it was magnetic too. After some research I found the answer and I calmed down. 316 is less prone to this, but 304 can be mildly magnetic without a problem. I also noticed the parts that were bent were more magnetic than the parts of the keg that were straight and minimally formed.

I have since avoided Chinese kegs, the German and Italian kegs were higher quality and not that much more expensive.
 
HighVoltageMan! said:
Not necessarily. If 304 is formed or worked cold, it will develop magnetic properties. If it needs to be non-magnetic, further processing needs to be performed. I believe it needs to be heated and slowly cooled (but I'm not 100% on that).

The reason I bring it up is because I panicked when I bought a new keg. It was made in China and a magnet stuck to it. I thought I was ripped off until I tested a German keg and realized it was magnetic too. After some research I found the answer and I calmed down. 316 is less prone to this, but 304 can be mildly magnetic without a problem. I also noticed the parts that were bent were more magnetic than the parts of the keg that were straight and minimally formed.

I have since avoided Chinese kegs, the German and Italian kegs were higher quality and not that much more expensive.
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My ss brewtech are slightly magnetic too. I believe they are 304
 
Bigbre04 said:
should be good to go! give it a nice spray with acid, rinse it and then clean it like you would normally and it should be fine.

fun fact. mirror polished is actually not as good as just straight rolled ss. the polishing is actually a ton of tiny scratches.
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This is true
 
meh i have seen large scale brewery equipement that was "304/316" be magnetic and have serious problems like cracking and corrosion issues. these were "cheap" chinese tanks from 10 years ago. since then the chinese have vastly improved their processes.

just did a little reading and it seems that 304 can become slightly magnetic when cold worked and still maintain its corrosion resistance. but i think that it becomes more brittle from the "cold working" process that causes it become magnetic. the brittleness causes cracks to form more quickly from heat cycling the tank and pressure.

I was mainly mentioning checking welds because not all welds are done properly they could use the wrong or cheaper "ss" in the weld rod and it cause problems.

the tanks i was referring to were 20 and 40 bbl tanks that had serious issues with leaking, especially around where the legs and supports were added. they also had some bad welds internally. My buddy is a sanitary welder and spent a lot of time fixing those tanks.
 
Little update for this.
After 2 batches with this i have started looking new one. No hurry but looking
+ reasonable easy to clean and can use adhesive "tools" if/when needed
- Seam between wall and bottom is not finished good enough, after batch this need to be scrubbed clean. I know that at some point something gets left behind and something funny will happen during next fermentation.
- Side wall is little too thin 0.5mm, when lifting fermenter wall act like bellows and there is risk that air is getting sucked to fermenter too much in wrong time. With better fermenting cabinet there would be no need to move it, all would be better
 
JVi said:
I never thought fermenting beer with open fermenter, does it work?
I have only done moonshine mash with open bucket.
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I do it
 
JVi said:
Need to be pretty sterile room for open vessel fermenting. Not here :)
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I wipe out my ferm chamber with a bleach solution
I just leave the lid on unsealed but open to scoop off the Krausen
it really isn't a problem
its how beer is made or was made forever
heck going up in the 50s my German neighbor brewed in his cellar with only a cheese cloth
I'm not that brave
 
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Dave Y said:
18 or 19?

50's, that is :p
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stop
in the 1850s they didn't even use cheese cloth
they didn't know anything about airborne contaminates other than flys and such
 
Brew Cat said:
stop
in the 1850s they didn't even use cheese cloth
they didn't know anything about airborne contaminates other than flys and such
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True open fermentation is very location dependent. the europeans got away with it because they got lucky with good airborne yeast. On my swampy South Georgia island i dont think it would go so well. Plus i am all about repeatability and consistency sooo.......it is not for me.
 
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Ultimately this is why we have different styles from different regions, there was a time when they thought it was some kind of magic. The first to hypothesize that yeast are living organisms was scoffed at. I think his name was Louis....
 
Brew Cat said:
tsk tsk
apparently there is open fermentation going on in Florida which is just as swampy as Georgia
https://byo.com/articles/open-fermentations-circling-back-to-fermenters-of-yesteryear/
I know @Bigbre04 is not set up to do it but any home brewer can do it following Denny Conns method
I've been doing it
If all you brew is IPA not worth it but any malt or yeast forward beers are great candidates
don't pooh pooh something you have never tried
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I "open ferment" Saisons. But since I have little head space in my fermenter, instead of a piece of sanitized foil over the lid, I run an open blowoff into the sink. Not sure that's truly open fermentation, but I tell myself it is. :D
 
Brew Cat said:
tsk tsk
apparently there is open fermentation going on in Florida which is just as swampy as Georgia
https://byo.com/articles/open-fermentations-circling-back-to-fermenters-of-yesteryear/
I know @Bigbre04 is not set up to do it but any home brewer can do it following Denny Conns method
I've been doing it
If all you brew is IPA not worth it but any malt or yeast forward beers are great candidates
don't pooh pooh something you have never tried
Click to expand...
I don't think the question is whether you CAN do open fermentation anywhere you want, but rather whether the resulting beer is something you want to drink. Jester King Brewery, a few miles from me, made a name for itself early in the craft beer ramp-up embracing the funkiness they experienced when the local microbiota took over their fermenters. They went full on open fermentation. Most stuff they served and bottled was funky and sour and they did a lot of aging and blending to make things palatable and interesting.
I've done some things like that in my own brewery early on to see what I might come up with and ended up with mostly nail polish remover and vinegar and the occasional farmhouse-style that was good for a glass or two before the novelty wore off.
In an area where winters are mild and there may be any number of living plants hosting wild yeasts and lactobacillus, it's hard to predict what you may get. If you like sour, funky beers, open ferment. If you want recognizable beer styles, it's pretty important to try to control what organisms you're allowing to have contact with your product. :)
 
J A said:
I don't think the question is whether you CAN do open fermentation anywhere you want, but rather whether the resulting beer is something you want to drink. Jester King Brewery, a few miles from me, made a name for itself early in the craft beer ramp-up embracing the funkiness they experienced when the local microbiota took over their fermenters. They went full on open fermentation. Most stuff they served and bottled was funky and sour and they did a lot of aging and blending to make things palatable and interesting.
I've done some things like that in my own brewery early on to see what I might come up with and ended up with mostly nail polish remover and vinegar and the occasional farmhouse-style that was good for a glass or two before the novelty wore off.
In an area where winters are mild and there may be any number of living plants hosting wild yeasts and lactobacillus, it's hard to predict what you may get. If you like sour, funky beers, open ferment. If you want recognizable beer styles, it's pretty important to try to control what organisms you're allowing to have contact with your product. :)
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I have done kettle sours in a mash mixer in my previous life, but we pitched a blend on them. pretty gnarly at 48 hours. solid white fuzzy pelical on top. we then boiled it out. very much not my beer style.
 
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you guys are perpetuating a myth
open fermentation isn't all about open to the air
I've done that as well but that's not what I'm talking about
have you read the articles Ive posted
you loosely cover the fermentor with foil or even your lid
no pressure on the yeast not even a blowoff
you leave it and let the Krausen bloom
once you see the Krausen start to collapse you seal it and throw in your air lock
its about letting your yeast do its thing
I've done about 5 and haven't had anything but super clean beer

Im actually doing a zoom with Jamil Zainasheff later today
he wrote the article above on open fermentation of Altbier
I'm going to pick his brain about my new obsession
I hate staying in a box I like to try different things for fun
 
Brew Cat said:
you guys are perpetuating a myth
open fermentation isn't all about open to the air
I've done that as well but that's not what I'm talking about
have you read the articles Ive posted
you loosely cover the fermentor with foil or even your lid
no pressure on the yeast not even a blowoff
you leave it and let the Krausen bloom
once you see the Krausen start to collapse you seal it and throw in your air lock
its about letting your yeast do its thing
I've done about 5 and haven't had anything but super clean beer

Im actually doing a zoom with Jamil Zainasheff later today
he wrote the article above on open fermentation of Altbier
I'm going to pick his brain about my new obsession
I hate staying in a box I like to try different things for fun
Click to expand...
i havent, i use a laptop at work so its a pain for me to watch/listen to podcasts. i have to log in on my phone and ill try to get them started.

i am not sure what portion is a myth? not trying to be argumentative fyi, just asking. ill check out the stuff you posted on my phone.
 
Well just got off the Zoom with Jamil
I asked about what styles could be improved with open fermentation?
his answer "all of them except maybe lagers"
his reasoning was that in a closed fermenter there is a cap of CO2 which prevents different gasses to mix and escape which lets the yeast develop flavors and esters unique to the individual strain. He said with lagers a lot of times you may be trying to suppress those but maybe not. Its a tool and it is definitely something home brewers should experiment with.
@Bigbre04 the myth I was referring to was what was said about open fermentation making funky or sour beer
I've made funky styles and like any style it requires special techniques non of which is specific to open fermentation
actually some good questions on the call related to some other things we have been talking about
if you have BYO I think you can listen on a replay
 
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