Experiment time?

[jmcnamara]

I just started listeningetting to the experimental brewing podcast by Dennys conn and drew beechum. They started talking about doing some experiments, which got me thinking.

What if we try to do something similar here? Granted it'd still be a small, somewhat biased sample size for the individual brewer, but in aggregate it could provide a bit of good data.

I know I'm not the only that has a brewing to do list exponentially greater than their spare time / # of fermentors, but this might be a cool thing to do just a gallon batch or whatever

I'm also trying to think of some ways to encourage all these "lurkers" to start posting and joining the conversation. By no means am i knocking anyone, I definitely just browsed here for a while before I started posting. But trying to join an established group can be a little intimidating, even online. For me at least

 

[jeffpn]

So what's the experiment?

 

[jmcnamara]

Well, ummm, I hadn't quite thought that far :roll:

Any ideas? I always like comparing ingredients rather than process changes. But I've been curious to see the effects of different mash temps on the same beer. I just don't think I've got good enough temp control to be helpful for that

The first one they did was comparing wlp001 to whatever the dry yeast equivalent is. 05? I haven't gotten to the one where they had some results

 

[jeffpn]

I noticed that my LHBS carries a Munich Helles yeast. Next time I brew it, I think I'll use it, instead of the generic dry lager yeast I've been using.

 

[oliver]

/r/homebrewing did a collaboration project, everyone voted and a consensus was made on a recipe. It'd be interesting to do one of those and assign yeasts to different users, or mash temps, or water profiles... idk.

 

[jmcnamara]

Good ideas. Idk if I trust my palate enough to do just one batch. I mean, I could say that X batch was malty, but I can't compare that to another batch with a different ingredient or % of the grist or whatever.

That doesn't mean this thread can't be about individual experiments we do. We can always start another one for a specific one that everyone would do.

Another idea, what do the different crystal malts add to the beer? Would crystal 20 and 40 be the same as the same amount of crystal 60? (Most likely not, but I'm just spit balling)

 

[jeffpn]

My favorite posts here are the ones that happen after 5:00, if you know what I mean!

 

[J A]

I noticed that my LHBS carries a Munich Helles yeast. Next time I brew it, I think I'll use it, instead of the generic dry lager yeast I've been using.

If it's the WLP860, it's a beauty! I've been using it for the last couple of months. I'm on my 3rd 5-gallon batch from the same yeast cake. Currently doing a speed-brewed Helles to keg up for the 4th of July. They list the average attenuation at 70%, but I've gotten around 85%. Very clean fermentation.

 

[J A]

Another idea, what do the different crystal malts add to the beer? Would crystal 20 and 40 be the same as the same amount of crystal 60? (Most likely not, but I'm just spit balling)

Higher number = darker color/deeper flavor. Here's a chart that offers a little bit of generic information:
https://byo.com/resources/grains

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Good ideas. Idk if I trust my palate enough to do just one batch. I mean, I could say that X batch was malty, but I can't compare that to another batch with a different ingredient or % of the grist or whatever.

That doesn't mean this thread can't be about individual experiments we do. We can always start another one for a specific one that everyone would do.

Another idea, what do the different crystal malts add to the beer? Would crystal 20 and 40 be the same as the same amount of crystal 60? (Most likely not, but I'm just spit balling)

depends on if your going for just color or flavor, flavor no because the lighter crystals will be sweeter then darker, the darker you go the maltier or roaster you get, mix 2 sweets together and it just gets sweeter but with the right color

 

[jmcnamara]

right. but i didn't understand "malty" until i actually brewed an all munich beer.

for instance, a lot of hops are described using the same words, yet they'll have different flavors / aromas in the beer. not to mention that they'll taste differently to different people.

same thing with off flavors. i had a good idea what wet cardboard would be like, what sucking on a tea bag is like. but until i actually tasted oxidation or astringency in an off flavor seminar, it was all kind of academic

don't get me wrong, i love reading about brewing / beer and i'll check that site out. but we need to get in there, get dirty, and experience it for ourselves

 

[jmcnamara]

depends on if your going for just color or flavor, flavor no because the lighter crystals will be sweeter then darker, the darker you go the maltier or roaster you get, mix 2 sweets together and it just gets sweeter but with the right color

so that's why you normally see a single type of crystal in most recipes?

 

[J A]

so that's why you normally see a single type of crystal in most recipes?

Some recipes will have more complex grain bills with a few crystals or roasts in varying amounts as well as Victory or Biscuit or something else that adds a specific note. IPA, Pale Ales, Ambers, Porters, Stouts, Bocks - generally beers with big flavors or high ABV - may have a lot of different grains to try to balance flavors. Lagers, Pils, Wheats, Blonde Ales, tend to have fewer ingredients.
Most new brewers tend to focus on simple recipes and keep variables to a minimum.

In terms of experimenting, it might make sense to do a more or less SMASH brew, but replace a certain amount of the grain with different crystals or other malts and compare the results.
Something like 90% 2-row and 10% Crystal 20, Crystal 40, Munich, Marris Otter,Victory, etc...with the same, simple hop additions that are easy to control.
It might be tough to mash small amounts exactly the same from day to day, and you'd have to have good temperature control for the fermenter, but I bet you could get close enough to get a good idea of what the various grains are doing.

 

[jmcnamara]

so what you're saying is, the experiments will never end?

EXcellent. (too bad there isnt a mr burns smiley face)

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

depends on if your going for just color or flavor, flavor no because the lighter crystals will be sweeter then darker, the darker you go the maltier or roaster you get, mix 2 sweets together and it just gets sweeter but with the right color

so that's why you normally see a single type of crystal in most recipes?

I personally find that after aging most of the individual flavors fade into one so adding 6 or 8 ingredients is pointless unless your a fanatic taster and want that beginning middle and end flavor so a simple recipe is better and easier especially for large batches, less bags of grain to buy

 

[artbreu]

Pitch Rate?

I think outside of controlling fermentation temperatures, which people have trouble with to varying degrees and so couldn't be controlled enough to make data very comparable, pitch rate can make dramatic changes to the finished flavor of beer and is much less variable--at least with dry.

So, for recipe X, allowing for varying temperature parameters, how does pitch rate effect the outcomes? It's still going to be relative to other variables, but not sure how any method can be used to get an apples to apples comparison.

Reading this, I'm not sure I am clarifying myself

 

[oliver]

right. but i didn't understand "malty" until i actually brewed an all munich beer.

quick question on this, i've been looking to do a munich smash, and just curious as to what the Munich base malt i should use. Is it the German Light Munich (10)? Or can i go with the Dark Munich (20)? Can we experiment this?

 

[jmcnamara]

i used the light munich. but if the dark has enough dp, then that'd be a good comparison. given that it's only 10L darker, i'd think it would

 

[oliver]

Light

Dark

...thinking about doing Munich, Hallertau Blanc, and Wy1007 German Ale...

 

[jmcnamara]

DO EEEEEEEET!