Editable Brew Steps

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by nate_d, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. TexasWine

    TexasWine New Member

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    Wanted to edit my brew steps and my Google-fu has brought me here. I've decided to use the "other ingredients" section as a workaround. In the name field I've typed a short description of the step, then in the use field I associate the step with the activity I want (mash, boil, etc.)
     
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  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    So you use the brewersfriend recipe calculator to Taylor your wine recipes cool must be a tad different to beer brewing instead of a cereal mash your crushing your grapes? You wouldn't boil them hmm? You'd filter the solids from the liquids though then set in the fermentation vessel add your sulphites? Yeast nutrients? And yeast starter or just pitch in liquid or dry yeast??.

    An interesting process parallel to beer fermentation that I know nada about:).

    Obviously your-yeast is way alcohol tolerant.
     
  3. aquafunk

    aquafunk New Member

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    +1 Is there still no to edit the steps yet? It's been 4 years! There is so much extra crap here it makes the feature useless :confused:
    I normally use BeerSmith but I like the idea of this site, here is my experience with your step feature.

    Double check that all ingredients are on hand.
    • I have the ingredients from when I drove to the store and back
    Ensure all equipment is on hand (hydrometer, sanitizer, fuel, fermentor, kettle, air lock, hops bags, hoses, funnel, towel, etc).
    • You don’t know what equipment I use so why list anything at all. Or give me a way to make a list of my own (oh and you spelled fermenter wrong)
    Make sure valve is closed on brew kettle.
    • My kettle doesn’t have a valve
    This recipe calls for XX L of water given the recipe and your equipment profile.
    • The only useful thing in the list, make it easier to find
    Fill kettle and begin heating strike water.
    • What the hell else was I going to do with the water?
    Add brewing salts as recipe calls for or to style.
    • I don’t Burtonize my water, it's fine the way it is
    Weigh out and mill grains if not already milled.
    • Again, that happened when I drove to the store and back
    Clean workspace.
    • Yes mom
    Prepare hops additions.
    • Include the amounts or just have the recipe on the same page so I can see it without switching tabs
    Take yeast out of fridge if using liquid ale yeast.
    • I use dry yeast, US-05, that I rehydrate as step 1
    Mash When strike water is ready, submerge grain bag and begin mash.
    • What the hell else was I gonna do with this bag full of grains
    Place lid on kettle and ensure temperature is maintained.
    • I don’t use a lid, I use an immersion cooker

    Blah blah, you get the idea, we need to be able to edit the list! :rolleyes:
     
  4. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Those are all on our list- we are working on editable brew session steps for sure.

    I also agree that no one has to tell me to gather my equipment. I"ve been doing this for a very long time, maybe 20 years, and I know that I have to get my stuff together.

    We're working on it!
     
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  5. aquafunk

    aquafunk New Member

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    Thanks for the response Yooper, good to hear development is still happening.
    I really like the site and am starting to move my BeerSmith recipes over, this will make it so much easier to share with my brewing buddies.
     
  6. Foogod

    Foogod New Member

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    For what it's worth, this feature is also important to me..

    I'm currently trialling the site, and I like a lot of it in principle, but to be honest the inability to customize my brewing procedure is kinda a major drawback for me and is the main thing holding me back from actually subscribing and really using it.

    I'm also a bit concerned that there seem to be several issues like this that people have been requesting for (literally) years, with lots of interest from lots of users, which periodically get the same "we're working on it" assurances, and still never seem to go anywhere. Is anybody actually doing any development on this site at this point? I'm happy to pay for a service if people are actually supporting it, but if the site's just gonna stay in the same state it was in 2013 forever, I don't see the point.
     
  7. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I'm glad for the questions. I've been brought in recently (Aug 2016) as a brewer who is a Lifetime member of Brewer's Friend but has rarely used it. The owner of the site asked me why, and I let him have it! I told him everything that I thought was lacking in the calculators, the recipe builder, the water chemistry calculator, and more. I'm a long time brewer and moderator/admin of a very large homebrewing forum and I use brewing software several times a week in my own brewing. I'm no developer or coder- I'm a brewer who leans heavily on brewing software and has used it for more than 11 years. I've used several programs and calculators and am proficient with a couple of them. I'm also a brewing geek- and take mash pH and IBU estimations seriously when crafting a recipe.

    They asked me because they really truly wanted to fix the issues. We also just brought in a new developer, just last month, to help with our wish list. We have a LOT of "we're working on it" replies- but that is because we really are. We just sent out an update today, with security fixes, fermentability of non-malt sugars, a member search, fixed a bug with the 2015 BJCP guidelines, support for IE/Edge, etc.

    We still have a laundry list of items, some small and some large. We are working full time on these, and are excited about bringing them out of the icebox and into the software.

    I read every single one of the feature suggestions, and think about them. I then bring them to the developer(s) and we prioritize. Sometimes the priority isn't necessarily the most requested features, because the length of time fixing an issue does come into play, as well as the impact on other features.

    TL/DR? We really ARE working on the things that we say we are. Keep it coming!
     
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  8. Foogod

    Foogod New Member

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    Thanks a lot for the more detailed update, Yooper! I guess I'll stick around for a bit and see how things go :)

    FWIW, my day job is in system administration and software development, so I do understand how things like this can be legitimately waylaid by circumstances, but I've also seen an awful lot of situations where folks just aren't doing anything but keep trying to put up a good face to string people along anyway, and from the outside it's often hard to tell the difference. Updates like this do help a lot, though.

    Oh, and if there's anything that folks like me can do to help out on features we'd like to see, please do let us know!

    (As a side-note/thought, maybe a public roadmap of some sort would be useful, so users can see all the things that you are working on and get an idea of where features are in the queue..)

    Anyway, and on an unrelated note, as a small nitpick:

    Actually, you spelled "fermentor" wrong :)

    "Fermenter": An organism that causes fermentation (e.g. yeast)
    "Fermentor": A device or apparatus designed to promote fermentation.

    (I'll admit, most people use them interchangeably these days, but persionally I do actually find the distinction worthwhile sometimes..)
     
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  9. aquafunk

    aquafunk New Member

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    Haha, thanks Foogod,

    Am I to understand that the fermenters in my fermentor, fermented the fermentation making a ferment as a firmament of yeast's power?

    Kind of like turning water into wine really! hmmmmm o_O

    I have decided that because I’m from Canada I’m going to spell it fermentour from now on ;)
     
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  10. jfspahn@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

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    +1 for editable brew steps. I like using the brew steps checklist. Even though I know all my brewing steps, sometimes stuff happens & I lose track of what I've done. A checklist is a big help. But my process is not exactly what's on your list. So I find myself printing a copy, then marking it up. Inefficient and frustrating. I'd rather use a customized online list.

    I also (sometimes) modify my equipment and want to be certain that I take specific measurements so I can adjust my equipment profile. Plus, its hard to go back and evaluate my process without timestamps.
     
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  11. jfspahn@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

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    In the “Brewers Friend Update” forum’s “Brewers Friend Update Log” there’s an entry that says

    “10/2/17 - Added ability to edit default brew session steps: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/profile/brew_steps

    But there’s no “Brew steps” entry or tab in the profile section. Has this change been made?
     
  12. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes- BUT.............it had a bug for older recipes and so we had to pull it for a bit until we get it fixed. I'll let you know ASAP where it stands.
     
  13. jfspahn@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

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    Thanks. Can’t wait.
     
  14. Ouroborealis

    Ouroborealis New Member

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    Selecting which ones you want included in your list is a great first step, but truly "editable" custom brew steps (things like "Add whirfloc at 5 minutes" etc) would be amazing and stop me from having to create my own lists externally.
     
  15. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes, we've added the editable brew steps and are discussing how to add things like that. I also need pH meter readings, while others don't, so we're discussing maybe a few "free text" lines to put in whatever you may need.
     
  16. onesecondglance

    onesecondglance New Member

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    Hi Yooper,

    it's good that you can toggle steps on and off, but being able to add your own steps would be really helpful. I'd think an add button with a free text field, then some kind of drag and drop to position the step in the brew session would be great. That might be more flexible for the more weird and wonderful recipes than editing existing steps?

    I also would like to be able to save unique brew steps per recipe. Some recipes have different techniques than others and it would seem odd to update my global preference to account for just one recipe, especially if I'm formulating that recipe somewhat ahead of the eventual brew day (which happens a lot - I jot down ideas as they come to me). E.g. if I'm doing a dark beer with cold steeped malts I'd need extra steps that I wouldn't for a pale ale, etc.

    Really appreciate the updates you've been pushing through - it's much appreciated.

    OSG
     
  17. torr

    torr New Member

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    IMHO this is a really important feature. Keeping track of every step is critical in ensuring reproducibility. I have to use pen and pad as an accompaniment due to this feature gap and while that's fine, I am paying for this software so... There is no way a set list, or even a list with "a few free text lines" would suffice. This has been an open request for 4 years! After seeing the price increase I have to wonder if users aren't just being strung along to maximize profits.

    I'm a software developer by trade. I am trying to imagine why this feature would be so hard to implement. Is there literally a table with 40 columns titled "step 1", "step 2", etc.? If that hits anywhere close to home, please stop charging for this software.
     
  18. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    #38 jeffpn, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
    I’m not a software developer by trade. If the app had editable brew steps. I wouldn’t use them. It’s not an important feature to me. That said, it wouldn’t bother me if they were there. I like the software, and I find it worth paying for. There are thousands of paid users, I’m sure. They couldn’t possibly please them all. They release the app they want to release, and they do make some changes due to popular demand. A 4 year request for a feature doesn’t make it a popular demand. To you, editable brew steps are everything. If everyone agreed, that would already be there. Let me know if BF stops charging for their software due to your demand.

    What is it about people who develop software that impel them to let you know that’s what they do? Should your request be considered over mine, because of your occupation? Tell me, when a user criticizes YOUR software, do you take it more seriously when that user is a software developer? The people who make the software here are software developers, too.
     
  19. torr

    torr New Member

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    There are a few points there to address. Please don't take this as being flamey, but I am allowed to voice my concerns.

    Building software for two decades has not provided me with a sense of entitlement, but rather a sense of relative value. If the system was built in a reasonable manner, this feature would fall under what we call "low hanging fruit." Given the replies to this thread from the staff I believe this feature is inordinately difficult to implement for some reason. That may be reading between the lines, but since this feature hasn't fallen off their radar - in fact they talk of releasing a "a few free text lines" solution - one must assume that it just wasn't built in a flexible manner. For me, internal quality is important.

    They don't have to please all of them. Most users don't complain. The silent majority always makes up the bulk of revenue. The ones that engage in praise and criticism should be listened to. They drive product development forward or crash it down. Take the reviews on the Brewer's Friend Android app, for example. They're largely horrendous. That's what happens when you don't listen to the vocal minority.

    That's fine if it's free. When you charge for something you are beholden to your customers to some degree. This isn't Apple.

    I demanded nothing. I voiced my dissatisfaction. Let's face it, this is not the only feature that has been asked for for many years. On the first page of feature requests alone there are a few requests reaching back years. The first page is ordered by activity so it does reason that there is more interest around these than later pages. This feature is on the first page when sorting by replies or by views. It is among the most sought after features. Is there some voting option I missed?
     
  20. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    You’re in a much better position that I am. You’re a software developer. You are not stuck with being forced to use software someone else developed, like the rest of us are. I don’t subscribe to your theory that a company owes something to paying consumers. If you like what’s for sale, buy it. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Companies make what consumers as a whole want to buy. If they don’t, people don’t buy, and the companies go out of business.

    Also, I added to my last post. I’m curious on your comments regarding the new paragraph at the end.
     

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