Dunkelweizen Recipe Critique

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Silverbullet07

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I am trying to put together my first extract recipe for my first brew attempt. I have been looking reading other reciepes and was trying to come up with my own and would like someone to review it and see if the ingredients look ok and your thoughts on them.

Thanks

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Herr Buckner's Dunkelweizen
Author: Harold Buckner

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: Dunkelweizen
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 5.33%
IBU (tinseth): 12.33
SRM (morey): 17.26

FERMENTABLES:
4.5 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat (61.2%)
1 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Amber (13.6%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
0.5 lb - CaraMunich III (6.8%)
0.35 lb - Carafa I (4.8%)
1 lb - Dark Wheat (13.6%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Bavarian Wheat 3638
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 75 F

NOTES:
The best yeast choices are Wyeast 3638 (Bavarian Weizen) for a slightly sweeter dunkel or Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan) for more clove, apple and banana notes. You can also use White Labs WLP300 (Hefeweizen Ale).

Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2012-09-16 10:13 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2012-09-16 10:12 UTC
 
A couple thoughts.
1) Wheat extract is not 100% wheat malt, but a percentage (around 50% depending on the maltster) of wheat, with the balance being barley malt. You could drop the Amber DME and use all wheat DME, or use a pound or two of Munich malt extract if you can find it. The Munich malt extract would add a rich malt character more associated to the style.
2) In your steeping grains you list Dark Wheat. If this is the Weyermann product, then it needs to be converted in a mash, and it doesn't contain enough enzymes to self convert. All this would add, beside color, would be unconverted starch which would make the final beer cloudy. I would drop this and add a half pound of crystal 40, or perhaps a small amount of Special B (6 oz or less).
3) I prefer the WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale yeast, only because I am more familiar with it. The other options you listed would be fine. If you have the ability to do so, keep the fermentation temp at the low end of the optimal range. Maybe even lower to about 60 deg F. Also I would make a starter,or use two yeast packs.

These suggestions are all minor stuff. The recipe you have will make beer, and as this is your first, don't get bogged down in too many details. RDWHAHB, and have fun. Remember sanitary practices, and when its in the fermenter LEAVE IT ALONE for a couple or three weeks. Have patience. Spent that time planning and preparing for the next brew. Cheers and good luck.
 
Chessking

Thanks for your feed back. I did not know that about the dark wheat grain Is there a way to know which grains can be used for steeping vs mashing so I know in the future?

If I remove the amber and use all wheat in the extract,

Then remove the dark wheat and use dark munich instead along with the caramunich would this give me enough munich To give me the rich malt character I would expect?
 
Larry has a nice writeup here
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/07/11/malted-grain-types-and-mash-profiles/
Also here
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Malt101.html
and here
http://www.onebeer.net/grainchart.html

Just remember that the base malts and the kilned malts need to be mashed, and not all the kilned malts can self convert, meaning you need the enzymes in the base malt to convert them. The kilned malts also add flavor if steeped, but you also get unconverted starches as well. The Roasted, and Kilned & Roasted, can be effectively steeped, and may not add anything when mashed. Beware the highly roasted malt as these have intense flavors that can go a long way. Many years ago when I was still figuring things out, I used 1 lb Black Patent malt instead of 1 oz. Needless to say the resulting beer was not what I expected and was almost undrinkable. I say almost because I was young and dumb. If I made the mistake today I would dump it and start over.

If you loose the amber and the Dark Wheat, and increase the wheat extract, you would have enough fermentables. Use the recipe editor to adjust for O.G. Then perhaps increase the Caramunich to 1 lb. That would add Munich flavor, then perhaps reduce the Carafa to adjust for color. The Carafa adds more color and aroma than flavor. Special B is also an option, but has a more caramel flavor than a Munich malt flavor.
Also when you increase caramel/crystal malts you get residual sweetness in the final beer. You may find you need to bump up the IBU's to balance this. This is a mater of taste, as currently you are within the range for the style.
 
Thanks Again.

I've been reading on this subject all day and getting a better understanding of the differences.

I thought about upping the caramunich but thought over 8 oz may start getting to sweet. But I would like more munich so I started reading about partial mash and maybe doing a mini mash.

I'll add all the speciality grains with the Dark Munich @ 160 for 45 min and then sparge with 170 degree water. This may help with the stach issue and the Munich is suppose to have enough enzymes to convert itself.

These are my changes to date. I saw some other recieps adding flaked oats so that I would try it.

Hopefully this is moving in the right direction for an excellect brew.


HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Herr Buckner's Dunkelweizen
Author: Harold Buckner

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: Dunkelweizen
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Efficiency: 30%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.44%
IBU (tinseth): 12.35
SRM (morey): 17.96

FERMENTABLES:
6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat (64%)
1 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat (10.7%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
0.5 lb - CaraMunich III (5.3%)
0.375 lb - Carafa I (4%)
1 lb - Dark Munich (10.7%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Oats (5.3%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Weihenstephan Weizen 3068
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 75 F

PRIMING:
Method: Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
Amount: 6 oz

NOTES:
The best yeast choices are Wyeast 3638 (Bavarian Weizen) for a slightly sweeter dunkel or Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan) for more clove, apple and banana notes. You can also use White Labs WLP300 (Hefeweizen Ale).



http://www.byo.com/component/resource/a ... al-mashing

Partial Mash Speciality Grains

Steeping water to grain should be 1.25qts/lb at around 150-160 degrees for about 45 min.
Bring water up to + 11 before adding to cooler.

Sparge with 1.25 qts/lb @ 170 degree




Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2012-09-17 01:35 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2012-09-17 01:22 UTC
 
Are you calling 160 your strike temp or mash temp? I would mash low, since this beer is going to have plenty of body - around 150. You're on target with the Munich for awesome grainy flavor, but why only one pound? Also, why do you assume an efficiency of 30%? Seems kind of low.
 
Do what you want of course, but as this is your first beer, try to keep it simple. learn the process. You can make great beer w/ extract, and you will have plenty of opportunities to expand your process. I brewed w/ extract for ten years before going all grain, and I made some fantastic beer. If you complicate your first go at it, and mess something up, leave something out, or just drop the ball on sanitation, your first beer will suffer. Just my 2 cents.
 
Altbier bitte said:
Are you calling 160 your strike temp or mash temp? I would mash low, since this beer is going to have plenty of body - around 150. You're on target with the Munich for awesome grainy flavor, but why only one pound? Also, why do you assume an efficiency of 30%? Seems kind of low.
Click to expand...

The efficiency is based only for the steeping grains according to Brewers friends which thy recommend to start it low to start with. As far as the amount of Munich, I was looking at about 75% wheat and 16% munich with the carmunich and dark Munich it is 1.5 lb.
 
chessking said:
Do what you want of course, but as this is your first beer, try to keep it simple. learn the process. You can make great beer w/ extract, and you will have plenty of opportunities to expand your process. I brewed w/ extract for ten years before going all grain, and I made some fantastic beer. If you complicate your first go at it, and mess something up, leave something out, or just drop the ball on sanitation, your first beer will suffer. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

My thoughts were this is still an extract recipe and mashing the speciality grains is really not much more different then steeping. I'll just use less water and mash a little longer. Most of the dunkelweizen have Munich in the kit to be steeped. Even with the kits there is some controversery if steeping Munich is enough to convert. I thought if I just extent the time to 45 min which some feels that should be good to convert it. Really not much more difficult.

I think you very much for your help, you had my really learning the differences in the grains and pointing me in the right direction.

I'm the type of person that really likes digging in and understanding the process of what I'm doing and tasks like this really helps build my knowledge. This is so much better then just buying a kit.
 
Altbier bitte said:
Are you calling 160 your strike temp or mash temp? I would mash low, since this beer is going to have plenty of body - around 150. You're on target with the Munich for awesome grainy flavor, but why only one pound? Also, why do you assume an efficiency of 30%? Seems kind of low.
Click to expand...


You got me thinking about the efficiency and back to my "how to brew" book I went. I now see how the efficiency and ppg changes compared to steeping and mashing as well as the style of sparging you do.

Since my efficiency will be improved with mashing the grains, I thought I should bump my efficiency up to aleast 65% to account for mashing of the speciality grains. Since the grains weight is small, If I get 30 - 72 % efficiency out of the grains that will keep me in the style range i want. I would like to hit at least 65%-70%. So if I batch sparge, I hope to get close.

Also since I am getting more from the Munich, I decided to cut 1 lb Wheat DME and add another .5 lb of Munich.

So My recipe now looks like this below. I hope I hit the OG numbers.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Herr Buckner's Dunkelweizen
Author: Harold Buckner

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: Dunkelweizen
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Efficiency: 65%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.41%
IBU (tinseth): 12.38
SRM (morey): 18.09

FERMENTABLES:
6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat (67.6%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
0.5 lb - CaraMunich III (5.6%)
0.375 lb - Carafa I (4.2%)
1.5 lb - Dark Munich (16.9%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Oats (5.6%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Weihenstephan Weizen 3068
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 75 F

PRIMING:
Method: Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
Amount: 6 oz

NOTES:
The best yeast choices are Wyeast 3638 (Bavarian Weizen) for a slightly sweeter dunkel or Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan) for more clove, apple and banana notes. You can also use White Labs WLP300 (Hefeweizen Ale).



http://www.byo.com/component/resource/a ... al-mashing

Partial Mash Speciality Grains

Steeping water to grain should be 1.25qts/lb at around 150-160 degrees for about 45 min.
Bring water up to + 11 before adding to cooler.

Sparge with 1.25 qts/lb @ 170 degree




Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2012-09-17 13:04 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2012-09-17 13:04 UTC
 
For my Dunkelweizen, I really like the result I get from the Weihenstephan Weizen yeast (Wyeast 3068). Really clovey. Have to brew that stuff again - great winter beer!
 
Nosybear said:
For my Dunkelweizen, I really like the result I get from the Weihenstephan Weizen yeast (Wyeast 3068). Really clovey. Have to brew that stuff again - great winter beer!
Click to expand...


I brewed this yesterday for my first brew. This was what I ended up doing. It went well for the first time put my mini mash effiency was real low (34%). I need to work on that. Also I ended up adding .5 gal of water that I for got to account for and maybe not enough boil off. So my OG was 1.044 instead of my hoped for 1.055. At least I meet the style. :roll:

It is fermenting well right now at 64-65F.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Herr Buckner's Dunkelweizen (Partial Mash)
Author: Harold Buckner

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: Dunkelweizen
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Efficiency: 65%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.43%
IBU (tinseth): 12.4
SRM (morey): 18.63

FERMENTABLES:
6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat - (late addition) (67.6%)
1.5 lb - Munich Dark (16.9%)
0.5 lb - CaraMunich III (5.6%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Oats (5.6%)
0.375 lb - Carafa I (4.2%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Hallertau (AA 3.8) for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma

MASH STEPS:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 2.5 qt
2) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 2.5 qt

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Weihenstephan Weizen 3068
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 75 F

PRIMING:
Method: Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
Amount: 6 oz

NOTES:
The best yeast choices are Wyeast 3638 (Bavarian Weizen) for a slightly sweeter dunkel or Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan) for more clove, apple and banana notes. You can also use White Labs WLP300 (Hefeweizen Ale).



http://www.byo.com/component/resource/a ... al-mashing

Partial Mash Speciality Grains

Steeping water to grain should be 1.5 qts/lb at around 150 degrees for about 45 min.
Water Temp = 150 + grain weight + 5

Sparge with 1.50 qts/lb @ 170 degree for 10 min.



References:

As with a full, all-grain mash, you can mash at a “low” mash temperature — 148–152 °F (64–67 °C) — and make a highly fermentable wort. Likewise, you can mash at a “high” mash temperature — 156–162 °F (69–72 °C) and make a less fermentable wort. Your overall wort fermentability will depend both on your mash temperature (and hence the fermentability of your mini-mash wort) and the amount and fermentability of your malt extract.


Pre-Boil Gravity


6.5 gallons of preboil wort that you measure at 1.043 has only so much sugar or total gravity. It's figured as 6.5 x 43 = 280 points.

If you think you'll boil off about 1.5 gallons in a 60 minute boil (typical) leaving 5 gallons post boil, then you just take that total number and divide by 5. 280/5 = 56 or 1.056.
 
My Dunkel V3.0 just got sufficiently conditioned to be drinkable, and it's wonderful! The biggest thing I did differently this time is to ferment very cool - low 60's - using my "redneck swamp cooler." Basically you wrap the fermenter in a wet towel and turn a fan on it - very effective at high altitudes with dry air for cooling!
 
Nosybear said:
My Dunkel V3.0 just got sufficiently conditioned to be drinkable, and it's wonderful! The biggest thing I did differently this time is to ferment very cool - low 60's - using my "redneck swamp cooler." Basically you wrap the fermenter in a wet towel and turn a fan on it - very effective at high altitudes with dry air for cooling!
Click to expand...

Nosy, Save a bottle or two for the Brew Hut Home Brewers night next month. I would love to try it. My Vienna Lager should be done by then, and we can swap a taste. I will look for you.
 
Chessking, wilco! Next homebrew night should be in February, right?
 
If they stay on the same schedule it would be January. Every other month I believe. However, I don't know for sure and I will find out the next time I'm in there.
 
Found out for sure last night - the Brew Hut is the third Thursday in odd months. So next month is Homebrew Night! I also heard there will be a sanctioned competition either this session or the next so time to make sure some of the goodies are ready for judges!
 
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