DME vs. Fresh Mashed Wort for Starters

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Thurston Brewer, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    I've made a couple of starters using DME and they've worked, but the reaction of the yeast was unimpressive. Then, once I pitch it into my fresh wort, it goes off like gangbusters! Seems like it enjoys my fresh mashed wort much better than that pre-bagged DME...

    Wouldn't it be better just to mash up some grain and use that for my starters? I'm gonna try it on my next batch, but I thought I'd cast about for opinions...
     
  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Probably nutrients from mash certain minerals and such produced in mashing. Try a stir plate that'll get them lazy yeasties munching and splitting.
     
  3. Brew Cat

    Brew Cat Active Member

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    I just save and freeze some of my second runnings for starters.
     
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  4. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I'm gunna have crack at this next brew I recon
     
  5. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I've done a simple mash using 2row and put the wort into quart jars. A bit of pressure cooking and you've got ready starter wort whenever you need it. I got 12 jars out of about 6 bucks worth of grain
     
  6. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes, real wort starters (RWS) work great. Although, starters with DME work great too. There isn't as much visible activity in a starter, partly because it's a smaller volume and partly because the SG of a starter is 1.035-1.040, so either a RWS or a DME starter would behave comparably..

    Either way, if you do make a RWS, make sure you boil the wort for at least a few minutes or pressure can the wort so that it's without bacteria. Grain itself is full of things like lactobacillus, so the runnings for the RWS should be boiled to sterilize/sanitize it.
     
  7. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yep I found this out last week when i grabbing one of my pre made RWS a week before hand and it was gross big thick sludgy green mess at top of jars lid near bursting and an off offensive smell. So yea be careful on the storage side I don't have a canner to sterilise everything I just boiled for 15 and threw that In hot into Masson jars but yea it all went pear shape quick.

    I'm back to DME in the meantime till I find a better way maybe freezing the 2 runnings then boil in flask
     
  8. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    I'm thinking to bottle it into spare beer bottles, seal them with crown caps and keep them in the fridge. Should keep for a while thataway.
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Then probably re boil and chill before pitching yeast to make sure?
     
  10. Brew Cat

    Brew Cat Active Member

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    Did you freeze them or just put them in jars? I don't think you can just put them in jars they would go bad. But freezing preserves it
     
  11. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    you can can wort in a mason jar but I wouldn't do it any other way than the old fashion way with a pressure cooker, you need to boil the jars and wort in the cooker under steam to seal the lids, if the lids don't pop it will spoil, trust me :eek:
     
  12. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yea I've made starters like this before pinching 1 or 2 liters 15 minutes into boil on brew day and I've had no problems. But the other day something musta went Amis on my cleaning and sterilisation. The lids popped in like normal and I checked them after a few days they were fine but on brew day I reached under the sink cupboard to grab out a pre made starter yea and the sight of them jars straight away told me INFECTION :eek:. I'd rather learn my lesson on a starter jar then on a whole fermentor volume :).
     
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  13. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  14. Gerry P

    Gerry P Active Member

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    I wouldn't have thought there'd be a difference between rws and dme starters since the dme people have just done the mashing for you. Assuming for the sake of argument that yeast likes rws better, maybe the process of making dme from wort destroys some yeast nutrients...?
     
  15. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    I really don't know why there would be a difference - just going off what I've seen. I'll be doing a mini-mash this week to create stock for some RWSes and I'll try one on my next brew. I'll share my results then.
     
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  16. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    the real difference is how fast you want your fermentation to start, yeast will eat any sugar but they are very particular, if you start with one then switch to another it takes time to change, some times they freak, not all sugar have the same chains to gobble up and not all starters have the correct amino acids, it really comes down to using the same starter as your fermenting for best results for speed, so if your making an all grain, use an all grain starter "for best results", if making an extract use dme "for best results". with that said you can use anything with anything and in time it will work, it all depends on the time you have
     
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  17. Gerry P

    Gerry P Active Member

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    Ok, my next question: wouldn't the sugar in both rws and dme starters be maltose? Let's say you make a batch of wort, then take half of it and turn it into dme using whatever process does that. You then make 2 starters using your wort and the rehydrated dme. What would be the difference between the 2 starters? I found some articles explaining why starters using different sugars (e.g. using dextrose for a starter instead of maltose) aren't a good idea, but nothing explaining a difference between rws and dme starters.
     
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  18. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    it should be the same although the rws will start faster if its the same grain
     
  19. Gerry P

    Gerry P Active Member

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    I saw a little krausen for the first time when I made my last starter. I figure it's because I accidentally added twice as much yeast nutrient as usual.
     
  20. Gerry P

    Gerry P Active Member

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    Ok. If it's faster, then something must be lost during the process of dehydrating the wort to make dme, right? That's what I'm curious about.
     

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