Czech Lager Starter

Craigerrr

Craigerrr

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Doing a starter as the yeast I got (for half price) was getting close to it's best before date. I have never used any kind of lager yeast before. How long it should take for it to take off? I pitched about 12-13 hours ago, no sign of activity yet. The use before date is January 2nd.
 
No sign of krausen ring BTW
20201231_085133.jpg
 
I am still a relative newbie, so that this for what it is worth

Lager yeast is often far slower than Ale yeast; a lag of a few days in primary is not alarming. Also in a starter. But you should see something after 24 hours. I assume that's at room temperature?

Give it a bit more time before you conclude it's dead.
 
If it doesn't kick in, and you are in a pickle, go with Fermentis S-23 dry yeast. A Fermentis employee wavered on providing me a direct answer, but if inferred between the lines nigh-on confirmed to me that S-23 is at least from the same tightly woven genetic source pool as for the famous Czech Premium Pilsner yeast strain, only rendered into dry form. Ferment it right cold. 50 degrees F. (10 degrees C.)

The unmentioned one is said to ferment at about 8 degrees C. as I recall, but it does not appear that S-23 has been officially tested/confirmed at that low of a temperature. If going with 8 degrees C, proceed at your own risk, and be sure to tell us how it turns out please. My guess is that it will work, but take a long time.
 
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Never buy old yeast. Even if yeast is kept in perfect conditions, the die-off rate is high. Anywhere close to the expiration date is very iffy. Any yeast in a starter, including lager yeast will take off pretty quickly, assuming that your temp is in the mid-60s. You got a DOA. Ask for your money back from whoever you bought it from. They know they sold you something that wasn't going to work.
PS...that's good advice on the S-23 the other Fermentis lager yeast 34/70 is extremely dependable, as well.Just use 2 to 3 packs for a 5 gallon batch, maybe 4 if fermenting at 50 degrees.
 
Howz your timing Craigerrr? If you're doing your boil today, I would cut your losses and get out to the LHBS before they close! Unless you have the time to do some steps on the starter so you are not under pitching, I think you should err on the side of caution!
 
Thanks guys, I was going to build it up over a few days, but it appears to be garfunkelled. I will purchase some dry yeast before brew day.
 
With dry yeast as the backup plan, I'd keep the stir plate going. Maybe you started with so few viable yeast cells there hasn't been enough propagation yet to show signs of life.
 
I just had a starter with 2124 take off slow just last week, which is unusual. I did a step method. I let the first step go 48 hours, the first 24 hours I saw little or no activity. Most times it's done in 12 hours. It was fresh and lager yeast are just as fast as ale yeast in a room temperature starter, so I was nervous. I was going to do what JA suggested, but it seem to come to life, so I crash it, decanted and threw the yeast from the first starter (1 liter) into a 4 liter starter. The second starter went crazy right away. I pitched it into a 7.5 gallon (28 liter) Pilsner at 46 F (7.75C) and it had about a 12 hour lag. Crisis averted.
 
If you know the OG of your starter I would check to see what the gravity is now. I often don't get much if any krausen with lager yeast (usually 2124) but I have found that isn't always an indication of activity. I also find that the speed of my stirplate can affect the amount of krausen I get, with higher speeds reducing its formation.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
If it doesn't kick in, and you are in a pickle, go with Fermentis S-23 dry yeast. A Fermentis employee wavered on providing me a direct answer, but if inferred between the lines nigh-on confirmed to me that S-23 is at least from the same tightly woven genetic source pool as for the famous Czech Premium Pilsner yeast strain, only rendered into dry form. Ferment it right cold. 50 degrees F. (10 degrees C.)

The unmentioned one is said to ferment at about 8 degrees C. as I recall, but it does not appear that S-23 has been officially tested/confirmed at that low of a temperature. If going with 8 degrees C, proceed at your own risk, and be sure to tell us how it turns out please. My guess is that it will work, but take a long time.
Click to expand...

A look at the genetic tree (at the link below) under "Beer 1 - Lager" yeasts confirms the above. Beer yeast genetic researcher 'Krogerus' (Suregork) confirms it at this link. S-23 and WY2001 share the same genes.

http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brewing_yeast_tree_Oct_2019.pdf

A surprise is that WLP-800 is actually an ale yeast related to WY2565 Kölsch yeast. Look under "Beer 1 - Belgium/Germany".
 
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Craigerrr said:
Doing a starter as the yeast I got (for half price) was getting close to it's best before date. I have never used any kind of lager yeast before. How long it should take for it to take off? I pitched about 12-13 hours ago, no sign of activity yet. The use before date is January 2nd.
Click to expand...
What you may want to do is another starter from this one. That close to the sell-by date you likely don't have good viability and you have no idea of the storage conditions. And if you have no signs of life after about 36 hours, dump it and buy fresh yeast.
 
Already dumped it, my LHBS will fix me up, I forget what saflager yeast I was originally going to get. Not having a means to aerate other than shaking, I actually feel more comfortable with dry yeast anyway:D
 
I agree with Nosy, and you should pull a sample next time and see if it moved.
 
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