Commercial level Cleaning Chemicals

Some of you know I'm now setup my brewery
I have come into contact with various people in the industry, almost all of them, probably due to antagonism, have given me great misinformation for example, the one with the steam also told me that if the chiller does not work at -25 Celsius it will not work nothing... another told me that the final cost of beer is very high crazy high, and that my beer will be constantly contaminated another told me that it is not worth getting involved if I do not produce batches of at least 1000 liters another said to be careful because it is very likely that I will go to prison after all, some of this may be true.But a couple of people who were willing to help told me differently, so I'm diving in this making my path to deal with all those
Truth is I have take great help in here, it's a long trip but I think I'm in good way
 
Tip from a pro brewer friend of mine. I don't remember the order, but, he reversed the acid/alkali order and his brew kettle was WAY easier to clean.
 
Anon E Moose said:
Tip from a pro brewer friend of mine. I don't remember the order, but, he reversed the acid/alkali order and his brew kettle was WAY easier to clean.
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generally speaking you run caustic to breakup the organics(sugars, trub, etc) and then you run acid to clean off the beer stone/hard water. if you do it opposite it, the organics will insulate the stone from the acids.

if you cant get the organics off with normal caustic you can boost the caustic with strong hydrogen peroxide.

of all of the chemicals that we have in breweries, paa and strong hydrogen peroxide are by far the sketchiest. the peroxide caustic mix will blow through dirt very very quickly. but damn the peroxide is very sketchy to handle and dangerous.

also the caustic will leave a white haze on stainless steel which the acid will take off.
 
Bigbre04 said:
generally speaking you run caustic to breakup the organics(sugars, trub, etc) and then you run acid to clean off the beer stone/hard water. if you do it opposite it, the organics will insulate the stone from the acids.

if you cant get the organics off with normal caustic you can boost the caustic with strong hydrogen peroxide.

of all of the chemicals that we have in breweries, paa and strong hydrogen peroxide are by far the sketchiest. the peroxide caustic mix will blow through dirt very very quickly. but damn the peroxide is very sketchy to handle and dangerous.

also the caustic will leave a white haze on stainless steel which the acid will take off.
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Do you use acid every time?
is necessary every cleaning cycle?
 
west1m said:
I haven't even been doing the PBW. I just push in a couple cups of Star San swish and pressure out. The third rinse is usually clean. Done ! Refill with good beer!
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why do you use sanitizer/ waste push a bit of beer in swirl it up push it out
ready for fresh beer
I don't do it all the time but Ive done it
 
Do you think is good to use chemicals special for food industry, alcalin and acid witch is mix of chemicals not just sodium hydroxide for example?
I have speak with a company that selling those chemicals they recommended me some kind of chemicals alcalin and acid
Also another with peracetic acid
 
Another question is Do you reuse the chemicals?
It's safe to storage let's say one week and reuse them?
A ph measurement before and after cip cycle it's good way to know the cleaning power of chemical for restore and reuse?
 
@Mastoras007 I use 5 star chemicals, specifically their LCC and acid no5. I mainly use them because i can buy them in 5 gal buckets and they are relatively concentrated.

the problem is that they are fairly expensive in the 5 gal quantity. if i could get and use 30 or 55gal drums, the cost goes down ALOT.

in my previous life, we had bulk caustic and acid in huge drums that were stationary. they brought a pump truck and refilled them from there. they wont do that with PAA as it is fairly hazardous and the shelf life issue means 55gal drums are about as big as i have ever seen.

Dont reuse chemicals. generally you are neutralizing the chemicals in order to clean. things like keg washers are difference since they recover the caustic, but most still need to dose in fresh chemical in order to maintain the chemicals strength.

PAA has a shelf life. once you mix it, you have roughly 24hrs before it has broken down into basically vinegar water. this is why i dont use it in my sani spray bottles. BUT if you are in a position where you are mixing up a fresh batch of Sani every day then by all means use it, it is far cheaper.

another thing that will save you alot of effort over time is getting a chemical foamer and foaming your tanks with caustic and acid at least once a month. this will keep them clean and is FAR easier then manually scrubbing them. i bought a small hand pump one on amazon. i was able to find foaming caustic in 1gal jugs formulated for breweries, the foaming acid is more difficult.
 
Ozarks Mountain Brewery said:
ive used 12% peroxide to clean kegs, expensive but does work
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man the peroxide booster we used was >30%. it was my least favorite chemical to handle by far. the smell along was aweful. probably should have had a respirator, but we didnt. that shit is really really sketchy and dangerous. far more so then the 50% caustic or super strong nitric/phos that we had on hand.
 
Bigbre04 said:
@Mastoras007 I use 5 star chemicals, specifically their LCC and acid no5. I mainly use them because i can buy them in 5 gal buckets and they are relatively concentrated.

the problem is that they are fairly expensive in the 5 gal quantity. if i could get and use 30 or 55gal drums, the cost goes down ALOT.

in my previous life, we had bulk caustic and acid in huge drums that were stationary. they brought a pump truck and refilled them from there. they wont do that with PAA as it is fairly hazardous and the shelf life issue means 55gal drums are about as big as i have ever seen.

Dont reuse chemicals. generally you are neutralizing the chemicals in order to clean. things like keg washers are difference since they recover the caustic, but most still need to dose in fresh chemical in order to maintain the chemicals strength.

PAA has a shelf life. once you mix it, you have roughly 24hrs before it has broken down into basically vinegar water. this is why i dont use it in my sani spray bottles. BUT if you are in a position where you are mixing up a fresh batch of Sani every day then by all means use it, it is far cheaper.

another thing that will save you alot of effort over time is getting a chemical foamer and foaming your tanks with caustic and acid at least once a month. this will keep them clean and is FAR easier then manually scrubbing them. i bought a small hand pump one on amazon. i was able to find foaming caustic in 1gal jugs formulated for breweries, the foaming acid is more difficult.
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What you mean foamer? And foam the tanks?
You mean the outside area?
 
You mean something like that
Need special chemicals for this? Or just use the same as cip?
IMG_1287.png
 
Bigbre04 said:
@Mastoras007 I use 5 star chemicals, specifically their LCC and acid no5. I mainly use them because i can buy them in 5 gal buckets and they are relatively concentrated.

the problem is that they are fairly expensive in the 5 gal quantity. if i could get and use 30 or 55gal drums, the cost goes down ALOT.

in my previous life, we had bulk caustic and acid in huge drums that were stationary. they brought a pump truck and refilled them from there. they wont do that with PAA as it is fairly hazardous and the shelf life issue means 55gal drums are about as big as i have ever seen.

Dont reuse chemicals. generally you are neutralizing the chemicals in order to clean. things like keg washers are difference since they recover the caustic, but most still need to dose in fresh chemical in order to maintain the chemicals strength.

PAA has a shelf life. once you mix it, you have roughly 24hrs before it has broken down into basically vinegar water. this is why i dont use it in my sani spray bottles. BUT if you are in a position where you are mixing up a fresh batch of Sani every day then by all means use it, it is far cheaper.

another thing that will save you alot of effort over time is getting a chemical foamer and foaming your tanks with caustic and acid at least once a month. this will keep them clean and is FAR easier then manually scrubbing them. i bought a small hand pump one on amazon. i was able to find foaming caustic in 1gal jugs formulated for breweries, the foaming acid is more difficult.
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how often are you breaking down the connection points; the connections at the bottom of a conical for example, the pick up tube, temp sensor, other tri-clamp connections, etc., etc., etc. ?

Once I get the initial 'scrub' done, I prefer letting the -in my case- PBW do the work, and at 140+, I find it works quite effectively. but those connections definitely cost me some time and effort.
 
Dave Y said:
how often are you breaking down the connection points; the connections at the bottom of a conical for example, the pick up tube, temp sensor, other tri-clamp connections, etc., etc., etc. ?

Once I get the initial 'scrub' done, I prefer letting the -in my case- PBW do the work, and at 140+, I find it works quite effectively. but those connections definitely cost me some time and effort.
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when my tanks were bigger and easier to reach we broke everyting down and hot rinsed them with 180. also guarenteed we had no co2 to protect out caustic.

so the answer is: Best practice is to strip the entire tank of all soft parts, scrub them/clean them/inspect them for wear and damage. then reassemble the whole thing before you start your chemical spins.

I dont really do that, but i also have full control and contact with my beer as it is entirely in house. If i was bigger and had to guarantee 90days of shelf life, i would be breaking everything completely down and doing above. The cost of bad product in the market and buying beer back is very high so the extra time and care is justified. Plus the design of those tanks was FAR superior to the lil chinese guys i have. it was only 4 TCs to get the whole bottom off to clean them. we didnt really strip the blow offs down unless we had foam come out of them. not to mention based on scale, everything was probably 16inches off the floor which made it a whole lot easier. my tanks are like 4 inches off the floor which means hands and knees.
 
Bigbre04 said:
I have a CPE pump with a VFD on a rolling cart.

The cart is very important, it keeps your hose lengths low.

VFD is important because i use it to knock out and whirlpool as the one from Speidel is crap and way undersized for anything.

Needs to be washdown and all stainless steel. the chemicals will eat everything else. Nylon impellers will not last.

my pump is 1 hp. pumphead is all stainless with triclamp in and out. the vfd sticker is gone.

https://www.cpesystems.com/products/microbrew-100?variant=45766097862886

it is similar to this one. but mine is 4 years old so i dont see the exact model. I am very jealous of the large TC setup to remove the head mine has stupid threaded bolts to remove the head.

BUY A PUMP HEAD REBUILD KIT WHEN YOU BUY THE PUMP!! it will save your ass in the future... generally they are relatively cheap especially compared to overnight shipping one and loosing production for 2 days while waiting on parts.
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Do you know how many bar is your cip running?
This pump giving a lot of liters per minutes (17m/h) but not a lot of pressure

I run a cip test today, the pump I use giving 8m/h I had 1,2bar pressure

The ball was spinning nice I can hear it but I don't think I had pressure enough to clean..
Don't know how this work it's my first time, do I need a lot of pressure to clean the tank or the chemicals can to their stuff without a lot of pressure?
Tia
 
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