Brewer's yeast as yeast nutrient

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by pazu, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    once it reaches room temperature, it will still take a couple of hours to reach the state of pitching, yeast do not like chlorine and make sure everything is sanitized, you risk infection and bad flavors otherwise, I would not recommend ice unless its carbon filtered water
     
  2. LarryBrewer

    LarryBrewer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Here is how my stirred starters look when they are ready. Usually after the 3rd day, sometimes takes up to 5 or 6 days, depends on the yeast. When it looks like the stir bar is just kicking up yeast, I stop the stir plate and let it settle out. This one was at room temp the entire time. I do my lager starters at 60-65F.

    This allows me to decant away the clear liquid on top (which I don't want impacting the flavor of the beer). 2 quarts into a 5.5 gallon batch is ~10%.

    By the way, here is the yeast nutrient I've been using, a little goes a long way:
    http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdeta ... oductID=15
     

    Attached Files:

  3. pazu

    pazu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    I live in New Hampshire, USA, forest by the lake
    Thanks for the assistance QHB and Larry. Learning of these new approaches is huge fun.

    The ice idea, was to put ice in a gallon ziploc with some water, seal that and just put that against the outside of the flask to slow the yeast, then wrap a wet cloth around all of that. To cool it down somewhat without going all the way down to fridge temp.

    Is it risky I wonder, to do the refrigerator chill separation process, is it considered to be a stressful step for the yeast?

    I have an artesian well and I used that water for the starter. I used that water through a brita for the invert sugar, and I intend to brew the batch with well water through a brita. With a new filter, the water tastes faintly chlorinated at first, but this filter is near EOL so should be fine. I could use it straight as well, I drink my well water straight all of the time. I'll test it soon so that I know what I've got.

    My LBS has Wyeast products, I hope they have that nutrient.

    I am prepared for sanitize as best I can, I have Io San but may change up to Star San, I want to be able to dump it out in my yard. I have a dishwasher with a high heat setting, I can see that works, based on the flask working.

    About ready to go, targeting tomorrow mid-morning to get the wort rolling, and if I'm not taking a big risk in doing so, I'll put the flask in the fridge to start clarifying.
     
  4. LarryBrewer

    LarryBrewer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Given your starter is not that big, you are okay to pitch the entire thing. It is only when your starter is 2 or 3 liters that decanting becomes a factor. Putting it in the fridge might stress it, though I have heard of people that do this without issue.
     
  5. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    the process I'm speaking of is really not to make a brewing day yeast so might be confused with how I'm doing mine today but its only to build my slurry into as many as batches as I can, I will not use the whole thing on one brew day, Ill split it off to as many tubes as I can fill with the slurry and as little wort then store for the future.

    on brew day I usually take 2 tubes that are filled with 3/4 slurry and make a brew day starter that morning, brew around noon. at that point I'm not trying to grow it as just to wake it up and bring it to room temperature

    with the WLP090 it seems to take off right away, Ive had bubbles as soon as 30 minutes lol
     
  6. pazu

    pazu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    I live in New Hampshire, USA, forest by the lake
    It is good of you guys to take the time to help me & others to get started. Starter, went in the fridge. I'll take it out tomorrow, go to the LBS, look for a little restart to the yeast action when I return, that will be my cue to go.

    A little slow to realize, that in choosing to invert 'natural' sugar (turbinado) rather than refined, there will now be a molasses component to this beer. Easy enough to invert 2 lbs of refined cane sugar to use instead, but I'm going with the natural. I did not let it caramelize at all. Hoping that there won't be an off-bitterness.

    This is the beer I am working up, as best I understand the recipe creator. Don't feel like you have to fix it for me, but it's there, if anyone does care to throw out thoughts as to what might result, or how I might level it off. I'm still trying to figure it out. I've probably got the yeast quantity/pitch part wrong.

    http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebr...le-american-lite-a-low-calorie-beer-testing-/
     
  7. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    should be good and light, only thing I see is whats the size of your fermenter? the reason I say that is your using a sugar and the yeast love it , the krausen might be at least 2 to 3 inches tall
     
  8. pazu

    pazu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    I live in New Hampshire, USA, forest by the lake
    6.5 carboy was the plan, to make agitation and introducing O2 easier. A 6.5 plastic bottling pail with a tap, & a standard 6.5 plastic pail w/the lid/grommet are also ready, I thought to use one as a clarification stage. I've got 3 of the 1.5 gallon plastic kegs and the remainder will go into 11.2 oz guinness draught bottles with oxy absorb caps.

    I will see if LBS has defoaming agent, thanks for another save QHB!

    :mrgreen:
     
  9. LarryBrewer

    LarryBrewer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    You could fit a blow off tube instead of a regular airlock. Overflowing krausen gets messy but we've all had to clean it up. I fit a blowoff tube now no matter what.

    If you want to adjust the FG (and resulting ABV) you can check the yeast section's custom attenuation box. You may get 85-90% attenuation with the Beano.
     
  10. pazu

    pazu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    I live in New Hampshire, USA, forest by the lake
    Thanks Larry, wow that takes the ABV up & out of the style! 181 calories, still plenty of sugar in there it would seem. This morning the starter is not yet cleared, there is sedimentation but there's a light opaqueness. I'm leaving it out and I'll monitor it. Still smells great. Quite curious as to what the liquid might taste like, I might be ok with pitching the whole flask. Off to the LBS.
     
  11. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    good luck, don't want to burst a good brew day but be careful when using beano without a filter, it works great for boosting AV but will leave your beer bone dry and actually will never quit working, just use a small amount and you'll be fine :)
     
  12. pazu

    pazu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    I live in New Hampshire, USA, forest by the lake
    More like saving the brew day QHB, I've been away from brewing too long to have any pride so please keep the cards & letters coming.

    Am I dragging this thread along too long, please advise if so. I can ask Q's 1 by 1 if that's more appropriate, I have sort of lost track of etiquette as I sponge up all of this great info!

    Been to two LHBS this am, neither had de-foaming agent. My can of O2 hasn't shipped yet & no stores around me carry it so that will have to be an experiment for next time. Maybe someone can beat me to that experiment!

    I may have to delay further. QHB's mention of foam-over, brought back to mind the 2 times it has happened previously. De-foaming agent would be a nice guarantee, unless... I brew half the batch in the carboy & half in a bucket for greater head space, then transfer both to a single secondary after the foaming has subsided?

    Great info re: the beano, I'll research that further and use less rather than more. Interesting that it keeps going, could lead to bottle bombs? Maybe gelatin will drop it out of the mix? I'll look into filtration.
     
  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    10,491
    Likes Received:
    12,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Just thought I'd bump this thread instead of creating a new one.
    Anyone doing this these day using bread yeast as starter yeast nutrient?
    Did a did bit of googling but thought I'd seen what the brains trust thinks.
    I'm thinking of adding some bread yeast to starter flask when boiling up starter wort to act as yeast nutrient.

    I'd love to know what youse think about this if you recon it's a waste of time no benefit.
    Or if you have done this how much do you add when and results? Cheers.

    Was crazy reading these old posts and seeing how far things have come in brewing:).
     
  14. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    Beer yeast have been cultivated for hundreds of years for specific attributes regarding flavor and attenuation. bread yeast hasn't gone through this selective breeding process. It will have a lower tolerance for alcohol, less flocculation, and tends to make beer that taste like bread. in other wards It will cloud the beer, change the flavor and be inconsistent
     
  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,777
    Likes Received:
    7,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Bread yeast is not as sanitary as beer yeast - it's designed to have a short life and to be sterilized in baking. Using it as a yeast nutrient is introducing anything that might be packaged with the yeast into the beer. Of course, if you boil it, it should be mostly sterilized and it's likely cheaper than some alternatives.
     
  16. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    Bread yeast is a great nutrient for starters and the boil as well. Yeast hulls are often added as a nutrient in wine, meads and beer. Obviously the bread yeast needs to be boiled to kill it and in the process the cell walls are burst. This releases a lot of micronutrients, but the one I am targeting is lipids. Lipids are essential for yeast growth. I use bread yeast for both boils and staters along with a lower dose of Wyeast nutrient. I use Wyeast nutrient for its zinc.

    There are a lot of arguments for and against adding nutrients, but bread yeast is a great nutrient.
     
    Trialben likes this.
  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    10,491
    Likes Received:
    12,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Cheers just what I was looking for any chance you could give me an indication of amounts you use let's say /lt of starter wort or /20lt batch?
     
  18. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    I use a teaspoon or so in the boil (20L), I suppose it would be 5-8 grams. In a starter I use 1/2 tsp or about 3-4 grams. It's not like other nutrients where you can over dose easily, but I wouldn't go too nuts with it. If you have some old beer yeast, that can be use as well. Just like bread yeast it should be boiled. Brew on!
     
  19. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,542
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    When I'm using yeast slurry I'll splash 20-40 ml into the boil before using the rest for the vitality starter thing. Bread yeast sounds like a good idea for the other brews though.

    I wonder how much abuse those lipids can take before they denature? I suppose I could just be creating more trub.
     
    Trialben likes this.
  20. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    From what I can tell, most lipids will make it through the boil if not added too soon. Yeast could be added at flame out, that way you could kill the yeast and preserve most of the lipids since they won't be exposed to the heat for an extended period of time.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white