Bagless BIAB?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Tal Orbach, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    I just got an electric brewing kettle, which I also want to use for mashing.
    My idea is as follows:
    Attach a very fine stainless mash to the false bottom.
    Mash with the whole volume of water, in the kettle.
    Drain the liquid to a container (same one I'd later use for my no-chill and fermentation).
    Remove the spent malt and false bottom, pour the liquid back in the kettle, and brew.

    Is there any problem with this method? (I assume it's pretty much exactly the same as BIAB as far as the actual result goes, isn't it?)
     
  2. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    that works. it will be tougher to remove the grains after you drain the wort. You could simply use a large mesh bag in place of a false bottom. Drain out the wort through the valve, and then when you've collected enough, pick up the bag with the grain.
     
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  3. Medarius

    Medarius Active Member

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    Be wary of hot -side aeration , pouring the hot wort from kettle to kettle may be a problem.
     
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  4. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine why you'd go to the trouble of doing it that way. There wouldn't be any advantage and it seems like a decent bag would be much cheaper, faster and more effective for a single vessel.
     
  5. Beer_Pirate

    Beer_Pirate Active Member

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    If you're set on this route, maybe make your own grainfather clone-ish thing. Instead of just a false bottom, find a second pot or something that just fits inside your kettle. Drill or otherwise perforate the bottom of the smaller pot and affix a handle. That way you can hoist it out without transferring wort back and forth.
     
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  6. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    If you wanted to do something like that, this might be helpful:
    [​IMG]
    I have one of those that came with a stainless pot I got for doing 5 gallon batches and always thought about using it in the way that Beer Pirate describes. Never got around to it and moved on to a different procedure. You'd still need a bag.
     
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  7. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    The reason I'm not so keen on having a grain basket like those suggested here, nor brewing in a bag is mainly that currently, the kettle has a thermowell stuck about 10 cm high, and sticking about 15 cm into the kettle, which won't really allow me to put those in.
    I might end up replacing it with a shorter.
    Even then, my experience with using a bag leads me to believe that I prefer another approach. I've had the bag get tangled with the spoon, when I stir, and worse - when I pull it out, it drips sugary mash all over the place. Sure, non of these are a deal-breaker, but if I could avoid it - I'd be a happier camper.
    Regarding the basket - I was going to get one (again, it means removing the thermowell), but they're much more expensive than I thought they'd be. So I'm currently thinking of cutting an HDPE bucket, drilling it all around and fixing a fine stainless mash. I still might do that.
    But if my idea (or something close to it) could work - I think it's a good way of killing two birds with one stone (so violent).
     
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  8. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why it wouldn't. With your method though, you might as well go with a batch sparge. Mash with approx. half your total water, drain and rinse with remaining water ( more or less).
    Obviously you are already aware of removing the spent grains and continuing on with your boil.
    Work with what you got. May not be ideal, but hell man, we've all done work arounds!
     
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  9. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    What are the advantages of a batch sparge?
    And I know that when I use a bag, I can mill the grains very fine, how will that change with the technique I imagined and/or with a batch sparge?
     
  10. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    Batch sparge will, or should increase your efficiency.
     
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  11. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Batch sparge in BIAB is to wash the sugars out from amongst the grains that won't come out when you pull the bag and squeeze. The alternative approach is to mash longer to give more time for the sugars to move out into the less concentrated wort. Also useful when you're looking for more fermentable wort as it gives the beta amalyse more timie to break down the maltose into simple maltose sugars.

    I think about about adding a batch sparge when I'm under a 60 minute mash or the gravity is above 1.60
     
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  12. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm just lazy but really can't see any benefit at all to this process change.
    Extra time and steps for no reward and extra chances to make a mess.
    Myself in your situation is just remove and blank off the temp probe and mash in a bag .
    Once you know the thermal losses of your system you'll nail your temps every time.
    I don't change my mill for bag, cooler tun or 3V and still get decent effiency on all systems I drive (~80% +/- 1%)
    What I do change though is mash thickness and sparge methods.

    At home with cooler mash tun or bag most batches get 25 l strike water and 10 litre sparge with a hybrid fly/ batch sparge without stirring
    I keep an eye on final runnings gravity and pH and it's all easy, no stress and reliable results
     
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