All Grain kit

[Hawkbox]

I know when I was starting out and reading "other" forums there is a lot of "All grain or don't bother" out there so I just wanted to make sure that wasn't the source of there inquiry too.

 

[Zambi]

I started all grain BIAB
But that was mainly because of availability.
And with a kit, its perfectly possible if you do smaller amounts. Mine was an 8 litre batch if I remember well.

 

[Nosybear]

As with the simple beer, I'd also encourage you to try an extract batch or three. Flattens out the learning curve....

 

[Brewer #347306]

I did look at starting with an extract kit, but (and maybe wrong with my thinking) I am assuming it would be similar to comparing a wine kit to using fresh grapes. As I mentioned before I am much more familiar with making wine and every kit I have made has been far inferior to my fresh grape wines even with me living in Edmonton and the grapes coming by truck from California. Will I learn by doing an extract, sure but why not just go all grain if that is my end goal anyways.

The reason I was looking at the brewzilla 3.1.1 is I would need to buy a kettle and heating element at a minimum (want to keep everything downstairs so lpg is a no go for my heater and wife would not go for me using the kitchen) and with it coming with the ability to control temp and the added chiller I feel it will likely save me money in the long run being $499.

 

[Brewer #347306]

Also, unbelievable feedback, I wasn't expecting a whole lot of responses but appreciate all the knowledge.
My wife is probably thinking I am crazy, I have watched YouTube videos of making beer every free moment I have for the last month.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I think the fact that you are a wine maker means you already know basics of fermentation and the importance of sanitation. My brother-in-law & sister-in-law went the other way. They started with beer and went to making wine. They enjoyed both but said making wine was a lot less work.

 

[Craigerrr]

Also, unbelievable feedback, I wasn't expecting a whole lot of responses but appreciate all the knowledge.
My wife is probably thinking I am crazy, I have watched YouTube videos of making beer every free moment I have for the last month.

My wife thought I was crazy before I got into making beer!
We are a friendly helpful lot, happy to help bud!
You can make some fine beer with extract and steeping grains. I'm not sure what the intricacies are of making a good wine, but there are some intricacies to making beer. Temperature control during fermentation is a biggie, the yeast will give off flavors if they are outside of their temperature range. Extract can actually eliminate a lot of key factors in your early going. Mash temperature, mash pH, for a couple. The extract is dried wort that has been mashed by the producer.
Keep us up to date on which direction you decide to go, we will be happy to guide you into the hobby (obsession). We like spending others money vicariously!

 

[Brewer #347306]

I think the fact that you are a wine maker means you already know basics of fermentation and the importance of sanitation. My brother-in-law & sister-in-law went the other way. They started with beer and went to making wine. They enjoyed both but said making wine was a lot less work.

I would agree if making a wine kit but from grapes is a whole other ball game. Very hands on for about 2-3 weeks crushing/destemming, adjusting chemistry, punching the cap, oak additions, etc etc, then waiting a year till it is even at a point where you can begin to think about blending... I would be done several beers in that time lol

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

I have made some very good beer with extract. My best Black IPA is an extract brew that I could not duplicate so far with all grain.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I would agree if making a wine kit but from grapes is a whole other ball game. Very hands on for about 2-3 weeks crushing/destemming, adjusting chemistry, punching the cap, oak additions, etc etc, then waiting a year till it is even at a point where you can begin to think about blending... I would be done several beers in that time lol

Come to think of it they did make wine with 100 lbs of blackberries they picked themselves. They did that ONCE.

 

[Blackmuse]

I did look at starting with an extract kit, but (and maybe wrong with my thinking) I am assuming it would be similar to comparing a wine kit to using fresh grapes. As I mentioned before I am much more familiar with making wine and every kit I have made has been far inferior to my fresh grape wines even with me living in Edmonton and the grapes coming by truck from California. Will I learn by doing an extract, sure but why not just go all grain if that is my end goal anyways.

The reason I was looking at the brewzilla 3.1.1 is I would need to buy a kettle and heating element at a minimum (want to keep everything downstairs so lpg is a no go for my heater and wife would not go for me using the kitchen) and with it coming with the ability to control temp and the added chiller I feel it will likely save me money in the long run being $499.

I too, love my brewzilla and probably would have saved a lot of money just starting with it... So I suppose I can't argue too much with your reasoning there... I would make a simple pale ale or blonde ale several times first though to get your feet wet, and to dial in your equipment and your consistency. Keep at the same simple recipe until you feel you've got the hang of things and worked out the kinks.

 

[Mark Farrall]

I too, love my brewzilla and probably would have saved a lot of money just starting with it... So I suppose I can't argue too much with your reasoning there...

I'm the same, but I did get a lot of learning (and frustration) along the way creating my own Frankenstein's monster of a system.

 

[Zambi]

I came from making wine to making beer.
It's a whole different ball game with a lot more variables!
But I like it!
If you don't have any of the equipment already and no access to a heat source, then it makes sense to invest in some form of an electrical brew kettle!
I had the (just) big enough pots etc and a gas stove....
Actually, not r totally true, I had an 8 litre pot and a 100 and 150 litre one, but they seemed a bit excessive for a first batch

 

[Donoroto]

I did look at starting with an extract kit, but (and maybe wrong with my thinking) I am assuming it would be similar to comparing a wine kit to using fresh grapes. As I mentioned before I am much more familiar with making wine and every kit I have made has been far inferior to my fresh grape wines even with me living in Edmonton and the grapes coming by truck from California. Will I learn by doing an extract, sure but why not just go all grain if that is my end goal anyways.

The reason I was looking at the brewzilla 3.1.1 is I would need to buy a kettle and heating element at a minimum (want to keep everything downstairs so lpg is a no go for my heater and wife would not go for me using the kitchen) and with it coming with the ability to control temp and the added chiller I feel it will likely save me money in the long run being $499.

The effect of fresh grapes on wine is far more profound than the effect of extract (dry or liquid) on beer. This is because the beer ingredients are already dried and processed in any case. Perhaps there would be a larger effect if one would brew with fresh grain (that's been malted).

So, don't be afraid to start with a batch or two fermented in a 5-gallon plastic bucket. Or the wine fermenter... You will definitely gain a lot of knowledge by starting this way, sufficient for the effort.

As for brewing in the basement: Wort from grain must be boiled for some time, generally an hour, to drive off undesirable compounds. In a 5-gallon batch, you often start with 7 gallons and boil off a gallon. Have a system to manage all that moisture. Many of us boil in the garage with the door open, or on the back porch. Some have exhaust fans, or boil outdoors.

Extract needs a far shorter boil, as it has been boiled (for compound removal) already; your boil is just to sterilize it.

Also note that there is an odor of cooked cereal from the mash and especially the boil.

 

[Brewer #347306]

The effect of fresh grapes on wine is far more profound than the effect of extract (dry or liquid) on beer. This is because the beer ingredients are already dried and processed in any case. Perhaps there would be a larger effect if one would brew with fresh grain (that's been malted).

So, don't be afraid to start with a batch or two fermented in a 5-gallon plastic bucket. Or the wine fermenter... You will definitely gain a lot of knowledge by starting this way, sufficient for the effort.

As for brewing in the basement: Wort from grain must be boiled for some time, generally an hour, to drive off undesirable compounds. In a 5-gallon batch, you often start with 7 gallons and boil off a gallon. Have a system to manage all that moisture. Many of us boil in the garage with the door open, or on the back porch. Some have exhaust fans, or boil outdoors.

Extract needs a far shorter boil, as it has been boiled (for compound removal) already; your boil is just to sterilize it.

Also note that there is an odor of cooked cereal from the mash and especially the boil.

The smell and the mess is mainly the reason why I would be doing this downstairs. I just built a new bar with lots of counter, double sink etc. Also have a window and circulation fans available to help with humidity/smell. I live up North near Edmonton so half of the year brewing outside is not what I want to do, right now it is -28°C.

 

[Brewer #347306]

Another question I have is about bottling. Not going the keg route right now, which is something I have zero experience with so I want to learn way more about that and actually brewing before I go that way.

A lot of videos I am watching are warning of air contact. A video I watched sort of had a good idea of using plastic bottles, doing a direct transfer to the bottles and then squeezing the air out prior to capping. I would dose each bottle seperatly with a simple syrup to what ever the carbonation calculator suggests.
Does that make sense?

 

[Brewer #347306]

Another question I have is about bottling. Not going the keg route right now, which is something I have zero experience with so I want to learn way more about that and actually brewing before I go that way.

A lot of videos I am watching are warning of air contact. A video I watched sort of had a good idea of using plastic bottles, doing a direct transfer to the bottles and then squeezing the air out prior to capping. I would dose each bottle seperatly with a simple syrup to what ever the carbonation calculator suggests.
Does that make sense?

Link to the video

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I only bottle. Air contact is something you want to minimize but, unless you are going all out with equipment, you can't eliminate. The main thing to avoid is splashing or anything that would mix air into the beer. That will lead to off flavors caused by oxidation. Dosing each bottle with sugar is one option. Many brewers use Domino Dots, though it's hard to fine tune carbonation with them. Adding a measured amount of sugar solution, as you mentioned, is another option. Could be tedious if you have a lot of bottles to fill. I add a sugar solution to my bottling bucket then, using an auto-siphon, transfer the beer from fermenter into the bottling bucket. When I start the auto-siphon I make sure the end of the tube is underneath the sugar solution to avoid sloshing and minimize mixing in air. When all the beer is transferred I gently stir to make sure the sugar solution is evenly distributed into the beer. When filling the bottles, I start with the bottle tilted, again to minimize splashing. Fill the bottle to the top. Removing the bottling wand leaved about an inch of head space at the top of the bottle. I believe this is aids in carbonation but, I'd have to look up why.

Since I don't have a CO2 tank to purge my bottling bucket or bottles of air, I'm sure I am getting some oxidation. But, it can't be much because my beer usually tastes pretty good.

I have heard of using one plastic soda bottle as a gauge of carbonation but, have not heard of using them on a whole batch and squeezing the air out of each one.

 

[Craigerrr]

Another dude from Western Canada!
Smooth transfers with no splashing will do the trick for mitigating O2 when bottling, I wouldn't get too uptight about it. I mostly keg, but here is a hot tip when bottling. I use my top dishwasher rack as a drying rack after sanitizing the bottles.

 

[Hawkbox]

I did look at starting with an extract kit, but (and maybe wrong with my thinking) I am assuming it would be similar to comparing a wine kit to using fresh grapes. As I mentioned before I am much more familiar with making wine and every kit I have made has been far inferior to my fresh grape wines even with me living in Edmonton and the grapes coming by truck from California. Will I learn by doing an extract, sure but why not just go all grain if that is my end goal anyways.

The reason I was looking at the brewzilla 3.1.1 is I would need to buy a kettle and heating element at a minimum (want to keep everything downstairs so lpg is a no go for my heater and wife would not go for me using the kitchen) and with it coming with the ability to control temp and the added chiller I feel it will likely save me money in the long run being $499.

You're in Edmonton? Have you joined the EHG discord channel?