Transfer from fermenting keg to serving keg

Simonpyman

Simonpyman

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Established Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Messages
514
Reaction score
1,340
Points
93
Location
California
So this is only the second time i have done a closed transfer from keg to keg and I am not sure what i am doing wrong. I connected the gas to the fermentation keg (at ~5-10 psi) and jumper cable from fermentation keg (out to out) to the serving keg that had a spunding valve attached to the gas in post. The transfer was slow and at some point started to get beer/foam coming out of the spunding valve. Ended up having to disconnect spunding valve and periodically release the PRV (covered with towels) on the serving keg to get the flow going. Ideally if I had a hose with a gas connector and have that sit in a jug with sanitizer as a blow off that would have been better i think.

Perhaps if someone could share their step by step process? I feel like an idiot at what should be a simple process and this experience was so frustrating yesterday!

Thanks in advance!
 
I'm not sure how you avoid sediment transfer in this keg to keg swap, but for the transfer it self, low and slow.
low psi and slow transfer. 5-10psi is too much unless your gauge is optimistic. You want enough pressure to move the beer, plus 1-2mm extra turn on the dial and that's it. Else if foams and you have to stop/bleed.

I do similar going from my pressure fermenter to a keg or kegs.
let's use my ~ 6 gallons in the fermenter into 2x 2.5 kegs as an example. about as complicated as it gets for me.

Ideally, my fermenter is sitting at about 12-15 psi.

I connect rotating valve out - hose to keg out. Keg in to 2nd keg in.
2nd keg in to open hose, dipped in to bottle of water and star san.

I have a rotary valve to control flow, so I open that enough to only see beer moving through the line, which will eventually make some bubbles in the star san.

Normally I can catch the keg hitting full volume by watching the outside of the keg, but, in case I'm distracted, if I see beer flowing in the in to in line, stop. move keg 1 out of the circuit.

Once keg 1 is full, close the valve off. pull connectors from the first keg.
Fermenter hose out to keg IN
keg OUT to hose into star san solution.
gently open valve until beer starts to flow.

At this point I need co2 from a cannister, connect to my spunding valve port, charge just enough to get the beer flowing and bubbles in star san. If I remember, I gradually open the valve on the fermenter as my psi goes down. when beer stops flowing, I open the valve all the way, zero out the pressure on my c02 cannister, bleed it, connect it and very gradually increase the pressure. wait a few seconds, repeat until I see beer flowing.

IF I got beer or bubble flow through the keg in to 2nd keg in connection, I will push out about a pint of beer, maybe a little more to create some head space in keg #1. Also for keg 2 if I got beer into the star san solution.

I've overdone it a few times on the pressure transfer which showed me my co2 gauges aren't really that accurate below about 8psi.
 
I've only done this a couple times so, not a proven method but, I it seems to work so far.

1771874551529.png
 
Only way to avoid transferring yeast sudge is to cut th dip tube short and collect liquid above the yeast tube. I always do pressure transfer but I'm using unitanks with racking ports so I can direct the pickup tube to minimize trub. I use 5 to 10 lbs of pressure and leave the receiving keg closed in order to maintain positive pressure and minimize foaming. I have to relieve pressure with the PRV every so often. I transfer with the receiving keg on a scale because my uni will hold more than 5 gallons.
 
I have a couple of questions:
1. Is the beer carbonated? I'm assuming so.
2. Do you use a floating pick up? This really helps.
3. Do you have a variable PRV (blow-tie, etc)

I transfer all my beers from fermenter to serving kegs in a closed transfer. The beer is fully carbonated and I use a floating pick up. The floating pickup is really the only way to do this and have it turn out well.

The receiving keg is fully purged by filling it with Starsan or with water that has a large dose of potassium metabisulfite (acts as a antimicrobial and antioxidant) and pushing it out with co2. The receiving keg is kept under pressure, the donor keg is pressurized to 2-4 pounds higher than the receiving keg. So for example, if the fermenter is at 15psi, the receiving keg is at 11-13 psi. This keeps foam at a minimum because the receiving keg's pressure keeps the co2 from coming out of solution and creating foam.

The variable PRV is adjusted to relieve the pressure increases from the incoming liquid (connected to the receiving kegs gas "out"). If you remove the variable PRV, the two vessel's pressure will equalize and the flow would stop. The closer the two kegs are to each other in pressure, the slower the flow and the lower the foam. It's really important that the receiving keg is under pressure, this is the key to keep the foam from forming.

I hope that helps. You setup seems to be right, you just need to figure out a procedure that works for you. I find it really helps with oxygen ingress and the beer can keep for several months or more without going bad.
 
Mike at Bay said:
For the uninitiated, is this whole process done to avoid siphon or transfer pump with the intent to eliminate exposure of the beer?
Click to expand...
Kinda.

Typically we transfer fermented but uncarbonated beer to the serving vessel with CO2 to avoid Oxygen contact. The receiving vessel is clean and purged with CO2, we transfer liquid to liquid at 1-3 psi, and snap a gas connector to the serving vessel’s gas post to vent the pressure.

@Simonpyman must have had carbonated beer, and the spunding valve was a way to limit foaming, like a counterpressure bottle filler.

5 gallons of uncarbonated beer transfers in 5 minutes or less. Carbonated needs 5 or 10 times that, just a slow trickle, or foam will vastly overtake the keg. It can be done with counterpressure, but slowly.
 
HighVoltageMan! said:
I have a couple of questions:
1. Is the beer carbonated? I'm assuming so.
2. Do you use a floating pick up? This really helps.
3. Do you have a variable PRV (blow-tie, etc)

I transfer all my beers from fermenter to serving kegs in a closed transfer. The beer is fully carbonated and I use a floating pick up. The floating pickup is really the only way to do this and have it turn out well.

The receiving keg is fully purged by filling it with Starsan or with water that has a large dose of potassium metabisulfite (acts as a antimicrobial and antioxidant) and pushing it out with co2. The receiving keg is kept under pressure, the donor keg is pressurized to 2-4 pounds higher than the receiving keg. So for example, if the fermenter is at 15psi, the receiving keg is at 11-13 psi. This keeps foam at a minimum because the receiving keg's pressure keeps the co2 from coming out of solution and creating foam.

The variable PRV is adjusted to relieve the pressure increases from the incoming liquid (connected to the receiving kegs gas "out"). If you remove the variable PRV, the two vessel's pressure will equalize and the flow would stop. The closer the two kegs are to each other in pressure, the slower the flow and the lower the foam. It's really important that the receiving keg is under pressure, this is the key to keep the foam from forming.

I hope that helps. You setup seems to be right, you just need to figure out a procedure that works for you. I find it really helps with oxygen ingress and the beer can keep for several months or more without going bad.
Click to expand...
I suspect the beer may have been carbonated (I was at 14 days from pitching the yeast, is the possible?) and yes i did have a floating pickup in the fermenting keg. I also have a spunding valve as well. I think another issue could be that the receiving keg was not low enough in pressure compared the the donor keg to facilitate transfer.
 
Donoroto said:
Kinda.

Typically we transfer fermented but uncarbonated beer to the serving vessel with CO2 to avoid Oxygen contact. The receiving vessel is clean and purged with CO2, we transfer liquid to liquid at 1-3 psi, and snap a gas connector to the serving vessel’s gas post to vent the pressure.

@Simonpyman must have had carbonated beer, and the spunding valve was a way to limit foaming, like a counterpressure bottle filler.

5 gallons of uncarbonated beer transfers in 5 minutes or less. Carbonated needs 5 or 10 times that, just a slow trickle, or foam will vastly overtake the keg. It can be done with counterpressure, but slowly.
Click to expand...
Would it have been carbonated at 14 days post pitch?
 
Simonpyman said:
Would it have been carbonated at 14 days post pitch?
Click to expand...
Unless you let the pressure out it is. If you ferment in a keg and and don’t have an airlock or the spunding valve all the way open it’s carbonated. If you ferment under pressure then it is. May not be as much as you want to serve but that’s a matter of preference.
 
Josh Hughes said:
Unless you let the pressure out it is. If you ferment in a keg and and don’t have an airlock or the spunding valve all the way open it’s carbonated. If you ferment under pressure then it is. May not be as much as you want to serve but that’s a matter of preference.
Click to expand...
Pressure was let out via gas connection to a tube going into a pitcher in starsan (I originally overfilled and had to replace spunding valve)
 
Simonpyman said:
Pressure was let out via gas connection to a tube going into a pitcher in starsan (I originally overfilled and had to replace spunding valve)
Click to expand...
No need for anything there, gas is coming out relatively fast, nothing can get in. I vent straight to atmosphere, not even a hose.
 
This is essentially what I do when transferring from fermenter (alrounder) to keg.

Relieve all pressure from both vessels.

Connect a jumper hose to the liquid post of the full keg.

Dial the gas regulator to basically closed, connect to the full keg, then open the reg until the gauge moves just a wee tiny bit.

Some how,some way bleed the jumper line so it is full of beer (a missed step above would be for this line to initially be filled with sanitizer). I use a male x male connector.

Connect a short open ended line to the gas post of the receiving keg with the open ended line in some kind of container.

Connect the other end of the now filled with beer jumper hose to the receiving keg.

Once there is a good few or several inches of beer in the receiving keg you can turn the pressure up a bit, but not much.

Slow and steady is the name of this game.
 
Mike at Bay said:
For the uninitiated, is this whole process done to avoid siphon or transfer pump with the intent to eliminate exposure of the beer?
Click to expand...
Again, @Donoroto has beaten me to the punch, but there's a benefit or 2 besides reducing o2 exposure, contamination risk.

Once set up, I don't have to heft the 5-6 gallons of beer around in a plastic bucket, I just let the co2 from the fermenter or cannister do the hard work of the transfer. It does create more of a cleaning/sanitizing need, but it's a few hoses and keg attachments.

I used to transfer from plastic bucket fermenter into sanitized 2nd container to get the beer off the sediment, let it rest 1-2 days and dump into the 5 gallon bucket with the valve on it, then first bottle straight from that bucket and later into a keg. I did all of this open to the air, so it got plenty of o2 exposure, and never caused me any grief I'm aware of. But, I'd periodically spill some, and it was sometimes a little on the perilous side.
 
Minbari said:
Haven't seen anyone mention temperature. What temp was the beer when you transferred it?

Cold is better
Click to expand...
I've done both warm and cold. If it's warm, I have to keep substantial CO2 pressure on as the keg cools .
With my unitanks, I ferment open until I'm within 5 or so points of FG and then close off. My PRV opens at about the right pressure for fermentation in the mid 60s. Since I have temp control, I can crash in the tank and I have a fitting that allows me to add pressure if needed to keep the proper pressure at temp for proper volumes. When I transfer, it's usually 40 degrees (or less in cool seasons) and fully carbed and pretty much clear. I often just top up with 30 lbs to replace any gas lost during transfer and throw it in the fridge. I won't put a tap line or CO2 line on it for 24 hours and then I'll purge any excess pressure and hook it up and leave it at my typical holding/serving pressure. I use BioFine for most stuff and I'll let it sit for at least 24 hours and clear a pint. Most beers are ready to go but lagers need another week or so to really clear.
 
getting it cold will help a whole lot. This is the basic principle on how i keg off finished beer. my guess is that your two kegs were too far apart in pressure. think about it like a closed system. you want both vessels to be evenly pressurized and then you can add pressure to one side and let it out of the other.

so my kegs are hopefully pressurized to around 10 psi before i fill them. the tank is at 15 psi. i hook up the fill head to the keg. crack open the relief valve(to prevent beer from flowing back into the tank if the keg happened to have more than 15 psi.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Want no ads? Go Premium and unlock all our brewing tools!
Copyright © 2007-2026 Brewer's Friend, Inc. - Send Feedback - Terms - RSS Feed - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Back
Top