15 min boil hops vs. Whirlpool

[Box of Rocks]

I brewed a batch of NEIPA last night, and made a late night blunder. Planning to add a small amount of Galena hops at 15 min left in the boil, and grabbed my big Mosaic hops Whirlpool addition instead. In it went, and so decided to go with no whirlpool and threw in the Galena then as well.
Very concerned bitterness would be off the charts, but found this post that gives me hope, and makes me think I might want to skip Whirlpool all together in the future. https://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-addition-exbeeriment-results/
Apparently all the IBU formulas are whacko, and estimating the bitterness that will be measured in the lab is still a crapshoot.
Wait and see I guess.

 

[Craigerrr]

Bitterness is perceived and the IBU's are really just a guide, but you could edit your recipe to see what the recipe editor to see what the IBU prediction is. There will definitely be IBU's imparted, but I would think that the flavor contribution at 15 minutes will be pronounced as well. Too bad that there wasn't an IFU rating! (International Flavor Units).
Who knows, maybe it will turn out to be a happy accident!

 

[Box of Rocks]

Interesting that IBUs should jump to 145 according to the revised recipe, but a similar approach in the article resulted in lab tested IBUs in the 60 range. Am hoping not to be tasting so much bitterness!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I've been late hoping and whirlpooling for more than a decade and I've found no evidence of any bitterness form this process, bitterness is all driving by temperature but also the more hops you add at one time it smooths out the flavor from the extra oils added, and with that said bitterness is also a perceived flavor not actual, each person perceives it differently so no software can actually predict what you will taste

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

you can also adjust any recipe's bitterness with the scale utilization form in the hop section, as you brew more beers this will help when creating recipes

 

[Craigerrr]

Interesting that IBUs should jump to 145 according to the revised recipe, but a similar approach in the article resulted in lab tested IBUs in the 60 range. Am hoping not to be tasting so much bitterness!

At some point adding hot sauce to hot sauce will not make it hotter sauce.
Let us know how it turns out.
One of my favorite brews was a happy accident, I had a few by the time I got to the boil and decided on the fly to double all of the hop additions. I haven't really changed anything to that recipe since. You never know!

 

[GFHomebrew]

If that was me i woulda just killed the heat and begun a hot stand

Depending on your chilling method
Usually 15 min Mark I'm adding imersion coil.

 

[Minbari]

I could be wrong here. But for hops to add bitterness you have to isomerize them. This takes more than 15 minutes

 

[Hawkbox]

You're going to get some bitterness, but not as much as you would full tilt boil so it's a bit weird.

 

[Donoroto]

It'll come out different, but probably not at all 'bad'. Don't Panic!

 

[Box of Rocks]

I could be wrong here. But for hops to add bitterness you have to isomerize them. This takes more than 15 minutes

Hoping your words will ring true on this one...

 

[Mark Farrall]

I could be wrong here. But for hops to add bitterness you have to isomerize them. This takes more than 15 minutes

Hops have a whole bunch of bitter materials in them. The most bitter material is the one you get from applying heat, but there's many that will add bitterness without heat. That's why dry hopping adds some bitterness, just much less than via boiling.

 

[Box of Rocks]

It'll come out different, but probably not at all 'bad'. Don't Panic!

Have to say the gravity sample wasn’t bad after sitting in the the fridge overnight. Hoping I stumbled on to something good. Glass half full right?

 

[Craigerrr]

There you go!

 

[GFHomebrew]

I could be wrong here. But for hops to add bitterness you have to isomerize them. This takes more than 15 minutes

Issomerization temp is 80c + Is how I've understood the literature when it comes to bittering compounds with hops.
So any hops in contact with above 80c will provide a higher bittering contribution than let's say hops added sub 80c.
That's why most brewers who only want to add hop flavour and aroma try and whirlpool/hop stand the hops at or below 80c

Yes hops added under 80c provide perceivable bitterness but as stated above we all perceive this bitterness differently.
What you need to is to brew this more and compare bitterness with hops added at different times and temperatures.

I find 20mins whirlpool at or below 80c provides my pallet with lovely hop flavour and aroma and reduced bitterness than let's say adding them to the boil.

 

[Box of Rocks]

Hops have a whole bunch of bitter materials in them. The most bitter material is the one you get from applying heat, but there's many that will add bitterness without heat. That's why dry hopping adds some bitterness, just much less than via boiling.

The formulas don’t estimate accurately, in any event. Should the formula point to the bitterness dropping off an IBU cliff by Whirlpooling at 180F for 20 min vs boiling at 210 for 15 min, especially if the lab tests say otherwise?

 

[Mark Farrall]

The formulas don’t estimate accurately, in any event. Should the formula point to the bitterness dropping off an IBU cliff by Whirlpooling at 180F for 20 min vs boiling at 210 for 15 min, especially if the lab tests say otherwise?

The isomerisation drops markedly at around 80C as Ben said, but it doesn't stop. You can actually get isomerisation at room temperature.

But I'm not sure that it's really that important in your case. The most important thing is your first point, the formulae are rubbish for later hop additions, especially for modern hops. They just weren't designed to model the way we hop these days and don't really give an idea of how bitter a beer will be unless it's a 60 minute noble hop addition in an average ABV blonde beer.

I've heard there's some new approaches to predicting IBUs, but just in passing. No idea if they're ready for sites like this to use.

 

[Box of Rocks]

Would have done it differently. Perhaps someone will invent a fermenter feature would allow me to rationalize my way to a better beer! Still might turn out fine though.

 

[Box of Rocks]

Found this helpful: https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/eej03p6ZUI/

 

[J A]

In comparing beers of "known" IBUs with beers that I've whirlpooled, I've come up with a figure of about 4% hop utilization for the whirlpool addition. I do percieve a difference in bitterness but it's very different from the 60 minute addition - much more transient on the palate.