Using rice and wheat

jmcnamara

jmcnamara

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I'm trying to brew something like a hefeweizen but not as full bodied. And I'm going to punch up the hop flavor a bit.

I'm thinking of using some rice to help dry out the beer a bit, but that seems like it would just counter the wheat. I should add I'm using pilsner malt as the base, probably 60% or so.

Any thoughts?
 
jmcnamara said:
I'm trying to brew something like a hefeweizen but not as full bodied. And I'm going to punch up the hop flavor a bit.

I'm thinking of using some rice to help dry out the beer a bit, but that seems like it would just counter the wheat. I should add I'm using pilsner malt as the base, probably 60% or so.

Any thoughts?
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Any reason for preferring rice over plain sugar?
 
not particularly

overall, i'm going for a somewhat tropical hefeweizen, fermented to bring out banana from the yeast, and dosed with a little coconut extract at packaging
 
flaked rice does not dry the beer out like sugar does, it also has a distinct flavor and texture at first then goes away
 
I've never used rice in beer, hence the question.
 
simple sugars will bring out the banana. skip the rice, use dextrose.
 
Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
flaked rice does not dry the beer out like sugar does, it also has a distinct flavor and texture at first then goes away
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yeah, definitely don't want to bring extra flavor into the equation, there's going to be enough going on in this beer
 
Krisallweissbier ;)
I could definitely see the hops working with the right combination of malt. I'd be interested in pushing the flavor with more wheat and the lightness with plenty of rice as you first suggested and see how dry you could get it - sort of like a "Brut IPA" with much more yeast character. Maybe if you went in after fermentation with cane sugar and champagne yeast you could get the attenuation way down.
 
J A said:
Krisallweissbier ;)
I could definitely see the hops working with the right combination of malt. I'd be interested in pushing the flavor with more wheat and the lightness with plenty of rice as you first suggested and see how dry you could get it - sort of like a "Brut IPA" with much more yeast character. Maybe if you went in after fermentation with cane sugar and champagne yeast you could get the attenuation way down.
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did not care for the 1 or 2 Brut IPAs i've had, so i don't want it to be too dry
 
I've found that rice doesn't dry out the beer neither well not dramatically like you'd think. I also find it doesn't thin out the flavour well not then three times I've used it twice in Ozarks Blondie and now in my similar mix up summertime lager. I'm still undecided on rice "flavour" maybe it's the type I've used standard white rice for cooking and flaked rice from breakfast isle. It kinda has a subtle sweetness unless I'm picking that up from the Vienna but "flavour" is definitely unique.

You'll have to try it for your self. If not just keep the wheat percentage lower than your pilsner. If using a wheatbier yeast it should attenuate pretty well and dry it out some (If that's what your going for) and then there is sugar...
 
you can also go 50/50 wheat and pilsner. I believe the brewing classic styles book is just 50/50 Weyermann or Continental Pils and Wheat (red or white from Rahr will work). dextrose or cane sugar like you have will ensure some more banana aroma on the yeast.

I've made some hefe-neipa type things, they're very good. I had best results when using a a grain bill and yeast more close to a hefeweizen, and using hops and water profile more close to a NEIPA. big whirlpool at slightly lower temps, around 165-170F, and a healthy dry hop will give off some really desirable flavors that play well with banana.
 
That's a good point on the water profile. I would have just made it balanced otherwise
 
jmcnamara said:
did not care for the 1 or 2 Brut IPAs i've had, so i don't want it to be too dry
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I was very surprised by the one example that I tried. Basically a hoppy lite beer with a little more kick and a lot more malty flavor than something like Coors or Miller.
I doubt that you could get even close to the that without extra enzymes so I'd bet that with up to 20% rice you might attenuate to .007 or maybe a little lower. Your 10% sugar will get you pretty similar results, I'm sure.
 
I dig my rice lagers. Can't be beat in the summer heat! :)
I made an International Dark Lager with 20% rice to keep it light in body so the dark caramel and pinch of roast would shine through. Definitely reminds me of the Michelob Classic Dark I used to enjoy in the 80s.
 
oliver said:
you can also go 50/50 wheat and pilsner. I believe the brewing classic styles book is just 50/50 Weyermann or Continental Pils and Wheat (red or white from Rahr will work). dextrose or cane sugar like you have will ensure some more banana aroma on the yeast.

I've made some hefe-neipa type things, they're very good. I had best results when using a a grain bill and yeast more close to a hefeweizen, and using hops and water profile more close to a NEIPA. big whirlpool at slightly lower temps, around 165-170F, and a healthy dry hop will give off some really desirable flavors that play well with banana.
Click to expand...
You seem to brew a lot of NEIPAs, what's a good water profile?
 
jmcnamara said:
You seem to brew a lot of NEIPAs, what's a good water profile?
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I've seen a lot of research and done a lot of my own tests.

I used to do zero sodium and magnesium additions at a profile of something like, Ca: 125, Mg: 0, Na: 0, Cl: 185, SO4: 70. Surprisingly that profile turns out both juicy and dry. No sodium to balance it out.

A Scott Janish article seems to point at Ca: 125, Mg: 5, Na: 10, Cl: 200, SO4: 75

I like that profile, but I prefer a 4:1 ratio... Ca: 115, Mg: 5, Na: 10, Cl: 200, SO4: 50 ... with that profile, I typically don't need any acid additions either, the gypsum and CaCl is enough to drive the mash pH down to about 5.35.

I've also tried Ca: 125, Mg: 5, Na: 10, Cl: 150, SO4: 150, and hated it. It certainly could have been the hop combination I used, but I hated that beer. It was way too bitter and astringent, maybe the sulfate took over and accentuated all the wrong things.


getting off track, but whatever... In the future, I'd like to do two experimental profiles.

First one is based on some Brulosophy experiment, but I want to bump up the sodium to see how soft and balanced out I can the flavors. Something like this: Ca: 100, Mg: 0, Na: 75, Cl: 200, SO4: 75 ... could be interesting?

Second one, I want to do a NEIPA with zero sulfate additions. Ca: 50, Mg: 0, Na: 10, Cl: 100, SO4: 0 ... if the ratio of chloride to sulfate is indeed what makes these beers soft and sweet, then this profile might make a pillow. No idea.
 
jmcnamara said:
You seem to brew a lot of NEIPAs, what's a good water profile?
Click to expand...
I'm interested in this too. It seems like some of the NEIPAs and hazy pales around here are made in such a way that I feel like I'm tasting the water additions and it distracts from the beer.
 
The Winco grocery store near me sells coconut sugar in the bulk section. I've used it in a few pale ales. It dries out the beer but also adds a little character to the taste. I usually throw in about a pound for a standard APA.
 
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