All Grain Mash Out: Why 168°F Changes Everything in Beer Making!

[TowelBoy_2013]

In Part 5 we explore the final step mash brewing technique...The Mash Out. Discover why this technique is so important to locking in the exact beer profile you want as well as how to perform a Mash Out no matter what system you're using. check out the video!

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[Minbari]

For a 5 gallon system where mash out to boil is 5 minutes. Really, don't need to do it. Haven't done it for the last 10 years

 

[dmtaylor]

I've only done a mash out maybe twice since I started brewing, and that was because I knew it would be a few hours before I could bring the wort up to a boil. If a mashout is helpful in some other way, there is something not great about other aspects of your process such as the crush, temperatures, pH.

 

[Yooper]

I used to mash out most of the time when I did a continuous sparge more than 20 years ago. I was a faithful follower of a very very slow sparge with no channelling, allowing 45 minutes to an hour for the sparge. After a couple of years of that I realized I was wasting time and electricity running the HERMS for over 2 hours between the mash and sparge and even stopped ramping up to 168F. I just decided to batch sparge up to my boil volume and fire the BK at the same time.

Now I usually do full volume no sparge, and just get the boil kettle going as the wort hits it

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

same for me

 

[J A]

Call me old-fashioned...I still prefer the consistency and high efficiency I get with mash-out and fly sparge.

 

[Minbari]

Call me old-fashioned...I still prefer the consistency and high efficiency I get with mash-out and fly sparge.

Mash out has nothing to do with efficiency. Simply stops conversion. Technically efficiency could go up without it, since conversion would go on longer

 

[J A]

Mash out has nothing to do with efficiency. Simply stops conversion. Technically efficiency could go up without it, since conversion would go on longer

And yet...when I do it my numbers are better. Go figure.
My opinion is that efficiency goes up with converted sugar molecules are efficiently separated from matrix of residual starches and proteins in the grain. If we're to believe conventional wisdom, modern grains do all their converting in the first 20 or 30 minutes and not much happens after that so most homebrewers do a simple single infusion of a limited duration and call it good enough. Plenty of conflicting information and competing ideas.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I mash out with every beer just because it's easy on my system, I set the temp and I can go do other things. The reason I still do a mash out is increased efficiency. I do a 3 step mash, one at 146F, one at 158F and one at 168F for most beers (lagers). With each step I see an increase in gravity.

Not everyone does this, nor is it necessary for each scenario or set up. You can also make a great beer using a single infusion, full volume mash and the proof of this is a lot of people are doing it. Each brewer adjusts their technique to their system and makes beer the way they think it works best. No one way is best, but each method produces slightly different beer, kind of like a brewer's signature. So, go ahead and sign your name the way you see fit; it's okay to be different.

 

[Megary]

I mash out with every beer just because it's easy on my system, I set the temp and I can go do other things. The reason I still do a mash out is increased efficiency. I do a 3 step mash, one at 146F, one at 158F and one at 168F for most beers (lagers). With each step I see an increase in gravity.

Interesting.
How long are you resting at each step? So, a 3-step mash that takes...say...90 minutes to complete would give you better efficiency than a 90-minute single step?

(I'm not chasing efficiency, just genuinely curious.)

 

[J A]

I mash out with every beer just because it's easy on my system, I set the temp and I can go do other things. The reason I still do a mash out is increased efficiency. I do a 3 step mash, one at 146F, one at 158F and one at 168F for most beers (lagers). With each step I see an increase in gravity.

Exactly what I do...
By selecting the temperatures fairly precisely to maximize efficiency of certain enzymes we can somewhat control the ratio of fermentable sugars and dextrins. Without a mashout the high temp conversion continues through the sparge and changes the makeup of the wort.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Interesting.
How long are you resting at each step? So, a 3-step mash that takes...say...90 minutes to complete would give you better efficiency than a 90-minute single step?

(I'm not chasing efficiency, just genuinely curious.)

60-90 minutes at 146F, 15 minutes at the next two, the temperature slowly ramps between the the steps so you cross over the entire temperature range for the enzymes. I'm usually busy with other things, so the time isn't wasted waiting for the mash to get done.

This doesn't work for everybody and some may even say it's stupid, but it works for me. I typically get @90% extraction rate out of the mash. Low for me would be 83-85% and 93-95% on the higher end.

 

[Yooper]

Exactly what I do...
By selecting the temperatures fairly precisely to maximize efficiency of certain enzymes we can somewhat control the ratio of fermentable sugars and dextrins. Without a mashout the high temp conversion continues through the sparge and changes the makeup of the wort.

Yes, that's totally true. I used to do exactly the same with my old HERMS as it was easy and pretty hands off, and I made great beer.

I went from a traditional mash out with the system. Then, I decided to save some time. Doing a batch sparge sort of is a mash out- You add 175 (or whatever you need) degree sparge water, and stir, and then recirculate, and run off. So even a mash out can be done in several ways- ramping with a HERMS or RIMS, or adding sparge water.

I do otherwise now, and still make great beer though. I think that once your technique is dialed in, the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" method is perfect for the brewer. Do I get less attenuation now? Maybe a little. Do I care? Nope. That's the beauty of finding your own way to make the best beer possible for your system. I don't know of many "one size fits all" brewery set ups right now.

 

[J A]

60-90 minutes at 146F, 15 minutes at the next two, the temperature slowly ramps between the the steps so you cross over the entire temperature range for the enzymes. I'm usually busy with other things, so the time isn't wasted waiting for the mash to get done.

That's about what I do but if I'm not doing a lager, I may ramp the first step up into the 150s for the last 20 minutes or so and/or hold the 158 for a little longer. Seems like the alpha enzymes active at higher temps are shorter-lived than the lower-temp beta enzymes so a really long time in the higher temp ranges doesn't make a lot of difference.

Yes, that's totally true. I used to do exactly the same with my old HERMS as it was easy and pretty hands off, and I made great beer.

I went from a traditional mash out with the system. Then, I decided to save some time. Doing a batch sparge sort of is a mash out- You add 175 (or whatever you need) degree sparge water, and stir, and then recirculate, and run off. So even a mash out can be done in several ways- ramping with a HERMS or RIMS, or adding sparge water.

Yeah, for batch sparge, using strike temp to kill two birds with one stone makes sense.
I think we all end up tweaking our process to work with whatever style of equipment we have. I like taking the slow route when I'm working on a big batch, especially lagers, but if I'm looking to fill taps quickly and getting through more small batches to have a variety of styles, I'll switch up the methodology to save time. Beer quality doesn't suffer but I tend to like the results best when I've checked all the boxes in my "traditional" process.

 

[Bigbre04]

60-90 minutes at 146F, 15 minutes at the next two, the temperature slowly ramps between the the steps so you cross over the entire temperature range for the enzymes. I'm usually busy with other things, so the time isn't wasted waiting for the mash to get done.

This doesn't work for everybody and some may even say it's stupid, but it works for me. I typically get @90% extraction rate out of the mash. Low for me would be 83-85% and 93-95% on the higher end.

I have to mash in twice because my system is stupid.

I tried skipping the mash out between the 2 mashes. I have a fair amount of data under my belt at this point. I noticed a fairly direct drop in my brewhouse effeciency when i skipped the middle mashout step. generally im between 86 and 90%, that drops down by a few points when i skip the mashout. It saves me 40 mins to skip it. I do it occasionally at this point, but not very often. I also sparge between the 2 mashes at around 170-175. to "rinse" out the sugars that are left and makeup my volume.

i would assume that a mashout step would help on most systems, but im sure that is a bigger challenge on some of them.

 

[J A]

I have to mash in twice because my system is stupid.

I tried skipping the mash out between the 2 mashes. I have a fair amount of data under my belt at this point. I noticed a fairly direct drop in my brewhouse effeciency when i skipped the middle mashout step. generally im between 86 and 90%, that drops down by a few points when i skip the mashout. It saves me 40 mins to skip it. I do it occasionally at this point, but not very often. I also sparge between the 2 mashes at around 170-175. to "rinse" out the sugars that are left and makeup my volume.

i would assume that a mashout step would help on most systems, but im sure that is a bigger challenge on some of them.

When I've done really big batches, I've had to max out my mash tun twice. And, yeah, I hate that mashout/sparge between the two mash sessions. For me time isn't as much of an issue, except for just being thrilled about a really damn long day doing it.

 

[Bigbre04]

When I've done really big batches, I've had to max out my mash tun twice. And, yeah, I hate that mashout/sparge between the two mash sessions. For me time isn't as much of an issue, except for just being thrilled about a really damn long day doing it.

i rarely do it anymore. it only really happens if i am running really behind timewise.

 

[J A]

i rarely do it anymore. it only really happens if i am running really behind timewise.

I got rid of my biggest fermenters so the double mash, single boil days for 20 gallon yield aren't a thing these days. I still have a half-barrel that I can fill with a maxed-out mash tun and some topping up after the boil. That fills 3 5-gallon kegs in one brew day and works out pretty nicely.