So as beginners we read about all these numbers and try our best to make sense of them. I've made four batches so far and have enjoyed everyone, except the one I just bottled today but in a few weeks I'm sure I will be enjoying that one. I was chasing the OG on the first 3 batches and never got really close - using a Mash&Boil (no pumping) with all grain recipes. (My understanding that the real OG is based on the amount/kind of grain used when brewed under specific conditions, so it's more a goal than a must hit number) After reading around in the forums, I figured the recipe kits I was getting were not milled fine enough, which I might try going finer next batch. Thinking about the process though, on my last batch I stirred a little more vigorously, mash a little longer and took a gravity sample right after the mash time was up (before sparge). It was right on within a point or two! Then I sparged, following the instructions in the M&B, Palmer, and BF with 170 water to get my volume up to were it should be and took another gravity reading, This is where I took all previous readings on the earlier batches. This time it was just like all the others about 20-5 points low? More thinking and a walk i in the woods --- Not really surprised since water's gravity is 1. Adding sparge water over the grain would bring it down although I thought it's purpose is to pull the remaining sugars out? Can someone shed some light on this? I thinking maybe not to sparge, or use less, and/or just use more strike water at the start? I know the answer is to just have another great homebrew, but open to your thoughts...