Belgian Blonde

[AsharaDayne]

In a recent thread about S-33 and T-58 yeasts, one confrère suggested using S-33 for a Belgian Blonde. This style has some added sugar, which might balance out the lowish attenuation of S-33.

Inspired from the guidelines from BYO (http://byo.com/bock/item/2827-belgian-blond-style-profile), I am considering the following:

Batch size 16L, Boil size 8L. Boil time 30 minutes
1.5 kg Extra Light DME
1.0 kg Extra Light DME (late addition)
0.3 kg brown sugar (late addition)
20g Hallertau Blanc 9%, 10g german Comet 8.7%, pre-boil, 30 mins
Fermentis Safbrew S-33

I think I'll plonk in the hops once the water starts heating, in the spirit of First Wort Hopping.
The guidelines call for noble hops, which I don't have. HB seems like it *could* fit the bill but I haven't got enough to reach desired IBUs, which is why I'm considering Comet. Might be too adventurous, but I have a feeling it could be nice. I also have some Swiss Perle, which might fit the bill. Or I could resort to our good friend Magnum.
I'm straying from the guidelines a little, but hey.

 

[chub1]

In a recent thread about S-33 and T-58 yeasts, one confrère suggested using S-33 for a Belgian Blonde. This style has some added sugar, which might balance out the lowish attenuation of S-33.

Inspired from the guidelines from BYO (http://byo.com/bock/item/2827-belgian-blond-style-profile), I am considering the following:

Batch size 16L, Boil size 8L. Boil time 30 minutes
1.5 kg Extra Light DME
1.0 kg Extra Light DME (late addition)
0.3 kg brown sugar (late addition)
20g Hallertau Blanc 9%, 10g german Comet 8.7%, pre-boil, 30 mins
Fermentis Safbrew S-33

I think I'll plonk in the hops once the water starts heating, in the spirit of First Wort Hopping.
The guidelines call for noble hops, which I don't have. HB seems like it *could* fit the bill but I haven't got enough to reach desired IBUs, which is why I'm considering Comet. Might be too adventurous, but I have a feeling it could be nice. I also have some Swiss Perle, which might fit the bill. Or I could resort to our good friend Magnum.
I'm straying from the guidelines a little, but hey.

That will be my next biab batch.Let us know how this goes

 

[KC]

Interesting you chose extra light when that article almost mandates pilsner. Also interesting that article doesn't mention wheat which is almost certainly where the beer in the photo gets its characteristic cloudiness and big foamy head.

FWH is a good idea here to hide the high alpha of those hops. You only really need about 16 IBU. Noble is typical for style guidelines but Belgian brewers do like using strong American hops. You're not way off target with yours.

Another trick to help attenuation [for AG or partial mash] is two-step mash. First high at around 156 to snip the big chains, then low around 148 to convert the small chains.

 

[chub1]

I see you are doing extract. Might i suggest keeping the light spraymalt as it is,cutting down the sugar to 100 grams and add 500 grams of wheat spraymalt.Keep the hops as they are or up the Hallertau to 25 grams and perhaps do away with the Comet! Do a 40 minute boil,Stick the hops in at 40 mins .

 

[AsharaDayne]

Interesting you chose extra light when that article almost mandates pilsner. Also interesting that article doesn't mention wheat which is almost certainly where the beer in the photo gets its characteristic cloudiness and big foamy head.

FWH is a good idea here to hide the high alpha of those hops. You only really need about 16 IBU. Noble is typical for style guidelines but Belgian brewers do like using strong American hops. You're not way off target with yours.

Another trick to help attenuation is two-step mash. First high at around 156 to snip the big chains, then low around 148 to convert the small chains. What's your target OG?

I'm going with what I have in stock, the closest to Pilsner being extra-light DME

According to the calculator, I'm clocking in at 26 IBU for a BUGU of approx 0.4, matching the upper limit of normal mentioned in the article.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

one thing to remember when brewing light beers, the most important factor isn't the recipe its the water, the water needs to be right on for any light style beer

 

[AsharaDayne]

one thing to remember when brewing light beers, the most important factor isn't the recipe its the water, the water needs to be right on for any light style beer

you mean light-colored beers? Huh, I hadn't considered the water.

 

[Head First]

You're considering and all extract recipe so Mash temperatures are irrelevant and the water isn't that big of a deal if the chlorine has been removed. Looks like you're close with your bugu ratio go for it. But in order to do a full wort hopping you would have to be mashing grain.

 

[J A]

For Blond, I'd use the T-58...more appropriate for style.
A Belgian Pale Ale is different. I'm brewing one today using S-33 specifically because the BJCP style guidelines specifically mention that the spicy phenols are low to absent in this style. The fruitiness of the S-33 comes through, but I've never gotten even a hint of spice from it. Let me know if you encounter any yeast-derived clove/cinnamon/pepper flavor notes using S-33. I suspect that there may a temp range that will bring out some phenols, but I have yet to find it.
That being said, I did do a "Saison" using S-33 where I added clove and Grains of Paradise along with lemon zest and ginger at the end of the boil. Fermenting around 70, adding honey to the fermenter and rousing every day got me to well over 80% attenuation. That was a great beer! You can always find a way to add just a hint of clove somewhere along the line if you feel that it's missing.

 

[AsharaDayne]

You're considering and all extract recipe so Mash temperatures are irrelevant and the water isn't that big of a deal if the chlorine has been removed. Looks like you're close with your bugu ratio go for it. But in order to do a full wort hopping you would have to be mashing grain.

That's reassuring ^^

I know FHW is associated with all grain brewing, but I figure there's no compelling reason not to try something similar with extract.

 

[AsharaDayne]

For Blond, I'd use the T-58...more appropriate for style.
A Belgian Pale Ale is different. I'm brewing one today using S-33 .

What's your recipe for that? And how does it compare to the belgian Blond?

 

[J A]

The Blond I just brewed last week is really a simple recipe - Pisner, Aromatic, candi sugar with WLP500 Monastery yeast. I put together a Pale based on researching proven recipes and poring over the BJCP guidelines.
Basically the Pale Ale is a maltier, maybe slightly more bland, everyday beer - think session/lawnmower beer that's amber/copper in color. The Belgian Pale isn't hoppy and as yeast-driven as the Belgian Blond or the Blond's darker twin the Trappist Dubbel.

Here's the BPA recipe I'm in the process of brewing.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/471085/belgian-pale-ale-3-aha
I've got the recipe configured for stuff I have on hand, but the components seem to be pretty common to the style. You'd see Munich instead of Maris Otter...I'm just low in Munich.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I thought FWH isn't too much about the grain it's the temperature of the isomerisation of the hops before the boil at lower temperatures like 75-80c there for extracting different aromatic hop oils the carry through the boil. I've tried two brews with FWH I noticed a more smoother bitterness but aromas wasn't out of the norm. Will try again in a pale ale and get a better opinion.

So I'm guessing with an extract brew you could steep these hops in my 80c wort for 20 or so minutes then bring up to the boil replicating a all grain mash out/sparge time. Would it be worth it it's all up to you asharadane.

 

[J A]

I think I'll plonk in the hops once the water starts heating, in the spirit of First Wort Hopping.
The guidelines call for noble hops, which I don't have. HB seems like it *could* fit the bill but I haven't got enough to reach desired IBUs, which is why I'm considering Comet. Might be too adventurous, but I have a feeling it could be nice. I also have some Swiss Perle, which might fit the bill. Or I could resort to our good friend Magnum.

Hops in water isn't first wort hopping...isomerization requires sugars to complete the process. Don't bother - you're not gaining anything. Just bring your wort to a boil, throw in a pinch of hops and start the clock. BTW...you really, really should be steeping some grains. You're missing out on half the beer and it's remedied by just steeping a half pound of specialty grain in the water before you add the DME. Easily the biggest improvement for the least investment and input of anything else you'll do.
Keep the hops simple. Magnum to bitter...it's a no brainer. Use your HB for late addition...that's what they're best at. Perle is great too. All good noble hops. A pinch of the Comet at flameout could add some really interesting notes, but keep it subtle.
Brew on!!

 

[AsharaDayne]

Hops in water isn't first wort hopping...isomerization requires sugars to complete the process. Don't bother - you're not gaining anything. Just bring your wort to a boil, throw in a pinch of hops and start the clock. BTW...you really, really should be steeping some grains. You're missing out on half the beer and it's remedied by just steeping a half pound of specialty grain in the water before you add the DME. Easily the biggest improvement for the least investment and input of anything else you'll do.
Keep the hops simple. Magnum to bitter...it's a no brainer. Use your HB for late addition...that's what they're best at. Perle is great too. All good noble hops. A pinch of the Comet at flameout could add some really interesting notes, but keep it subtle.
Brew on!!

Well I usually add the DME when the water is (luke)warm. So the hops would be heating up with the fermentables, although they wouldn't get their 80°c "rest". Would you say it's useless in that case?

Tried mashing twice and I'm traumatised of grains haha. My stovetop plus small volumes, it was an utter disaster (and the results sucked). But I shall look into steeping, in the future.

 

[AsharaDayne]

I thought FWH isn't too much about the grain it's the temperature of the isomerisation of the hops before the boil at lower temperatures like 75-80c there for extracting different aromatic hop oils the carry through the boil. I've tried two brews with FWH I noticed a more smoother bitterness but aromas wasn't out of the norm. Will try again in a pale ale and get a better opinion.

So I'm guessing with an extract brew you could steep these hops in my 80c wort for 20 or so minutes then bring up to the boil replicating a all grain mash out/sparge time. Would it be worth it it's all up to you asharadane.

So would you say you got +/- the full aroma from the hops?

Humm I was trying to find a convenient and short method. It should be at least feasible to keep 8L in such a temperature range... but can I be bothered, that is the question

 

[GFHomebrew]

So would you say you got +/- the full aroma from the hops?

Humm I was trying to find a convenient and short method. It should be at least feasible to keep 8L in such a temperature range... but can I be bothered, that is the question

I don't think you get the aroma you would from a 80c whirlpool addition like I said before definitely smooth bitterness.
It's your call mate but I'd keep it simple for now and get your brewing down pat like JA said try steeping some specialty grains before adding DME therefore replicating a standard infusion mash that way eventually you can do away with extract malt kits and extract it yourself from the grains.

Everything gets better with practice.

 

[J A]

But I shall look into steeping, in the future.

Steeping is super simple. You don't have to worry as much about temperature because you're not really converting all the starches but just getting the pre-converted sugars out of the Cara-Crystal. If you have a little Vienna or other "character" base malt, holding at 145 or 150 converts a little of the starches and gives some of the malt flavor. It will transform your beer making if you're only using extract.

Regarding the hops, I guess it's doing something like that...I just think there are other things you can be doing that will make more of an impact.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Thanks for all the tips guys. In the end I did FWH + flameout addition of Hallertau Blanc + Perle, with a pinch of Comet.

Since it wasn't too much of a hassle keeping the temp in range, I guess steeping grains is in the cards for the future. I'm more focused on hops at present, but I am aware that the grains have something to say too.
Btw, the DME is "pale ale", not "extra light" - anyhow it's 8 EBC, a bit "darker" than Pilsner but I hope it'll turn out OK.

 

[Nosybear]

That's reassuring ^^

I know FHW is associated with all grain brewing, but I figure there's no compelling reason not to try something similar with extract.

It's easy: Dissolve your extract and add hops. Add your steep or mini mash and voila, extract first wort hopping.