Yeast Attenuation - Safale - 05

[Chip99]

If/when switching to the Voss yeast can you still pitch it dry? Or need to rehydrate? Chip

Ouch! They sure are proud of that Voss yeast. Double the price of Safale. And it looks like its best performance is at a much higher temperature range than the environment I'm fermenting in. I think I will work on mash temps first and continue with Safale and see what happens... Chip

 

[Chip99]

Can't help with the Kveik. I'm not a fan of what I have tasted from others, so I don't use it.
You probably do want to think about a cheap, used refrigerator or chest freezer with an Inkbird controller to help with fermentation temps though.

It's pricey. I'll stick with Safale for now and work on my mash temps first. Although I'm fermenting at 72 I think it's pretty consistently that temp. I have a chest freezer with controller but it is my kegerator and only fits one corny keg and a 5lb CO2 tank... Chip

 

[Minbari]

I would have a hard time doing that in a cooler... Chip

True, but point being, 152 would be fine. You just want to stay below ~155F. You get up to 158F and enzymes are dying

 

[J A]

I was afraid that starting at 152 that dropping to 148 at the end I would be getting less efficiency. Based on many of the replies that is not the case.

That's probably just about perfect for maximum fermentability.

My fermenter just sits in a dark corner of my mancave where I keep the temp about 70-72 degrees.

If ambient is 72, the wort will get up to 76 or so, most likely. If you haven't noticed off flavors in your beer (green apple, solvent-y) the temp may not be too much of an issue. US-05 is probably okay up to the mid-70s but nicer below 70 degrees.
One thing that you can do to keep the temp under control is a water bath. It really only works with carboys or buckets but if you can find a tub or container big enough to surround the fermenter with a good level of water and then cover with a towel that reaches down into the water, that evaporative effect can cool the wort several degrees. And you can throw in a frozen water bottle as needed.
If you have a small conical or similar, you can build a simple temp chamber with a big upside-down cardboard box and frozen liter water bottles. You'd be surprised how well that can maintain a substantially lower air temp.
Find a way to keep track of actual wort temp, too. Either a stick-on aquarium thermometer strip or a thermowell with a probe. All that stuff is fairly cheap and easy to find.
Good luck!

 

[Bigbre04]

if you expect to lose 4f from your strike water to your mash temp shoot for your final temp to be around 149. that gives you wiggle room to stay in the sacc range for most of the mash time without being too hot and denaturing your enzymes. as long as you spend most of your mash between 145 and 152 you should have some decent fermentables. the lower end will end up with a dryer beer.

in regards to voss, i would absolutely pitch it dry, no starter. the big advantage with voss is that you can knock out hotter and it will finish out very quickly and relatively cleanly.

I find the optimum temp to be 96f, but i also have significantly more temp control then the average homebrewer. at 96, i find that it leaves a slightly fruity flavor in golden light beers, but that blends easily with any hoppy flavors you shoot for.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

standard package size for a 5 gallon batch

You need two packs for that gravity and a nutrient on the cold side (added to the fermenter and not the boil). The yeast needs zinc to help with metabolism, especially with gravities above 1.060.

The yeast sounds like it's stressed a little. If you pitch at a lower rate, you may need to aerate with pure oxygen. The two packs per 5 gallon is the best option with that high of gravity.

Mash as low as you can. Avoid starting too high and drifting low. Beta-amylase denatures at 149-150F. If your targeting beta-amylase for higher attenuation, start below 150F and if you drift lower in temperature, it's not an issue until it goes below 142F. Hold for at least an 60-90 minutes. A second step is helpful for conversion efficiency, but it wouldn't necessarily help attenuation.

If you can pitch at a lower temperature to keep it lower during fermentation. It's going to spike in temperature, especially with more yeast.

 

[Dave Y]

if you expect to lose 4f from your strike water to your mash temp shoot for your final temp to be around 149. that gives you wiggle room to stay in the sacc range for most of the mash time without being too hot and denaturing your enzymes. as long as you spend most of your mash between 145 and 152 you should have some decent fermentables. the lower end will end up with a dryer beer.

in regards to voss, i would absolutely pitch it dry, no starter. the big advantage with voss is that you can knock out hotter and it will finish out very quickly and relatively cleanly.

I find the optimum temp to be 96f, but i also have significantly more temp control then the average homebrewer. at 96, i find that it leaves a slightly fruity flavor in golden light beers, but that blends easily with any hoppy flavors you shoot for.

Running Voss at 96, Lutra around 92-93, and Hornidal similar and they will ferment FAST. My 5-6 gallon batch record is 28 hours pitch to "oh crap, it's time to cold crash already!" I've done several high 1.060 - low 1.070 beers with Voss fermenting outside in the Texas summer heat, no temp control whatsoever. They were fast, no off flavors, IPAs the lot of them and well liked.
I've only used Hornidal twice IIRC, it's got a more floral aroma.

Kveik is a great option if you don't have really good temp control and hot summers, but, it's not in its element at 72F.

 

[Bigbre04]

i run all of my Juicy/hazy IPAs with Voss. Dryhop at 12hrs and it will Rip down to 83% attenuation by day 4. Crash at the end of day 5 to get double gravs and then carb/pack on day 6 or 7. doesnt matter if it is 18p or 12p.

 

[Craigerrr]

Kveik isn't everyone's cup of tea, or glass of beer.
Fermenting at 90F or even higher as @Bigbre04 mentions is ideal.
It is perfect for Hazy brews if that is what you like.

Bigger picture, temperature controlled fermentation is a game changer for beer quality.
A cheap used fridge and an inkbird are very, very well worth the investment.

 

[Bigbre04]

Kveik isn't everyone's cup of tea, or glass of beer.
Fermenting at 90F or even higher as @Bigbre04 mentions is ideal.
It is perfect for Hazy brews if that is what you like.

Bigger picture, temperature controlled fermentation is a game changer for beer quality.
A cheap used fridge and an inkbird are very, very well worth the investment.

this 100% the real advantage that pros have over homebrewers is temp control. CCVs and scale help some, but accurate temp control on the hot and cold side is very clutch.

Just carried 39 bags of grain up 2.5 flights of stairs...fml i am shakey...

 

[Chip99]

True, but point being, 152 would be fine. You just want to stay below ~155F. You get up to 158F and enzymes are dying

Thanks! I'm mashing right now. Used the calculator and hit 152 on the button! And all through the mash not just one spot... Chip

 

[Bigbre04]

Thanks! I'm mashing right now. Used the calculator and hit 152 on the button! And all through the mash not just one spot... Chip

word. that is def gonna be better then your previous batches. Generally speaking if you are looking for a dryer beer shoot for 147-149. 152 will leave a little residual sweetness, but that is not a bad thing! if you are doing a stout or something where you want residual, shoot for 152-155.

once you get your temps sorted out, it is worth taking a gander at your ph. I shoot for 5.3 on most things, dark beers i shoot for 5.4ph.

there is always room to make better beer!

 

[Chip99]

word. that is def gonna be better then your previous batches. Generally speaking if you are looking for a dryer beer shoot for 147-149. 152 will leave a little residual sweetness, but that is not a bad thing! if you are doing a stout or something where you want residual, shoot for 152-155.

once you get your temps sorted out, it is worth taking a gander at your ph. I shoot for 5.3 on most things, dark beers i shoot for 5.4ph.

there is always room to make better beer!

Thanks! I've never tested my water. I get water from a grocery store reverse osmosis machine. Our water at the house has like 650 ppm dissolved solids. We have an RO filter but it can only put out enough for us to do coffee and cooking. I do have the ability to test for both PH and dissolved solids and so will test the PH on the RO water I'm getting from the machine. Thanks again... Chip

 

[Bigbre04]

Thanks! I've never tested my water. I get water from a grocery store reverse osmosis machine. Our water at the house has like 650 ppm dissolved solids. We have an RO filter but it can only put out enough for us to do coffee and cooking. I do have the ability to test for both PH and dissolved solids and so will test the PH on the RO water I'm getting from the machine. Thanks again... Chip

i would look at getting spring water instead of RO. With RO you really need to be adding salts to the water. I would bet if you picked a brand name, that the stats are easy to get so you know what you are working with!

 

[Chip99]

word. that is def gonna be better then your previous batches. Generally speaking if you are looking for a dryer beer shoot for 147-149. 152 will leave a little residual sweetness, but that is not a bad thing! if you are doing a stout or something where you want residual, shoot for 152-155.

once you get your temps sorted out, it is worth taking a gander at your ph. I shoot for 5.3 on most things, dark beers i shoot for 5.4ph.

there is always room to make better beer!

Also, if I do test my water for PH, how do I adjust said PH? Is there a lesson for that? Thank you! Chip

 

[Bigbre04]

Also, if I do test my water for PH, how do I adjust said PH? Is there a lesson for that? Thank you! Chip

you dont need to test your water for ph, the more important thing is taking a ph sample of your mash. if you are using RO i would assume the water would be very close to exactly 7ph(you use distilled water when calibrating a ph meter).

 

[Chip99]

i would look at getting spring water instead of RO. With RO you really need to be adding salts to the water. I would bet if you picked a brand name, that the stats are easy to get so you know what you are working with!

Spring water is going to be pricey I think but it is something I will definitely look into! Chip

 

[Craigerrr]

I use RO water and add the following to get the desired profile
Calcium Chloride, Gypsum, Epsom salts, Pickling salt (do not use table salt)

To buffer pH - acid, some use lactic, some phosphoric I think, I always forgot to add it so I add acidulated malt to the grain bill

To buffer pH up - baking soda, also typically use it in Hazy beers

 

[J A]

Also, if I do test my water for PH, how do I adjust said PH? Is there a lesson for that? Thank you! Chip

If you're on a well, just keep using RO and add proper minerals...or maybe get it tested because maybe you're lucky. If you're on municipal water, there has to be a report - probably quarterly - that'll tell you the important numbers.

PS...stick to the US-05 for your temp ranges. All the fuss about Kveik being good for higher temps misses the point. It's good for over 90 which takes temp control and heating, in most environments. If you have a constant 72 ambient, you can get good fermentations with very minimal additional infrastructure.

 

[Minbari]

If you're on a well, just keep using RO and add proper minerals...or maybe get it tested because maybe you're lucky. If you're on municipal water, there has to be a report - probably quarterly - that'll tell you the important numbers.

PS...stick to the US-05 for your temp ranges. All the fuss about Kveik being good for higher temps misses the point. It's good for over 90 which takes temp control and heating, in most environments. If you have a constant 72 ambient, you can get good fermentations with very minimal additional infrastructure.

... And the only reason to run kviek is if you are running hot. When ran hot, it tastes like ass.

No reason not to run us05 if you have temps under control