Which recipe should I make??

[J A]

There's whether it fits into a particular 'style' or class and then there's whether or not it's good & drinkable. I asked a BJCP guy to review my 'fest a couple years ago and he ripped me for it being too sweet and caramel-y. Literally just seconds before I got beer of the month from the locals. It was solid feedback, and nothing wrong with what he said to me about it, but sometimes the 'style guidelines' aren't necessarily the friend of what's a good, drinkable beer.

Breweries don't brew to style guidelines to fill taps and keep asses glued to stools. One issue, though, is that customers need an idea of what they're ordering so there should be some resemblance between the style attributed in the beer name and what comes ends up in the glass.

I've long since given up on anything labeled "kolsch". It doesn't mean much in many instances - the beer could be a hoppy blonde ale or some sort of fruit-tinged adjunct concoction. But...I think it's pretty common for beers brewed in that general style to be pretty drinkable and popular even if (and maybe because) they don't adhere to the guidelines for an actual Kolsch style.

Pilsner, at least has some geographical designation that may give you a hint. If the tap says "German Pilsner" and it has Idaho Gem hops, I'm entitled to bitch about it. If it says "Italian Pilsner" (whatever that actually is) or "West Coast Pilsner" all bets are off. I'll probably like it a lot but if it shows up in in the German beer BJCP table at a contest, I'm knocking it for style points.

IPAs are all over the map these days, mostly leaning toward juicy and/or hazy but if someone calls it an IPA, I know what expect to some extent - lots of flavor, plenty of hops, maybe pretty bitter.

Who cares if a beer is award winning or not
Means nothing to me
If you like it you like it

Depends a lot on the award...when a brewery is consistently getting high-level gold medals for several of their lagers within their first couple of years, that definitely says a lot about their program. I order a Helles or Pils in full confidence that it'll be a proper German style beer of high quality.
If a homebrewer has won a local competition with a particular beer, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in that. Might be great, might be somewhat mediocre.
Most craft beers and breweries are not "award winning" but that doesn't stop them from producing solid and sometimes spectacular beers.

 

[Dave Y]

Breweries don't brew to style guidelines to fill taps and keep asses glued to stools. One issue, though, is that customers need an idea of what they're ordering so there should be some resemblance between the style attributed in the beer name and what comes ends up in the glass.

I've long since given up on anything labeled "kolsch". It doesn't mean much in many instances - the beer could be a hoppy blonde ale or some sort of fruit-tinged adjunct concoction. But...I think it's pretty common for beers brewed in that general style to be pretty drinkable and popular even if (and maybe because) they don't adhere to the guidelines for an actual Kolsch style.

Pilsner, at least has some geographical designation that may give you a hint. If the tap says "German Pilsner" and it has Idaho Gem hops, I'm entitled to bitch about it. If it says "Italian Pilsner" (whatever that actually is) or "West Coast Pilsner" all bets are off. I'll probably like it a lot but if it shows up in in the German beer BJCP table at a contest, I'm knocking it for style points.

IPAs are all over the map these days, mostly leaning toward juicy and/or hazy but if someone calls it an IPA, I know what expect to some extent - lots of flavor, plenty of hops, maybe pretty bitter.


Depends a lot on the award...when a brewery is consistently getting high-level gold medals for several of their lagers within their first couple of years, that definitely says a lot about their program. I order a Helles or Pils in full confidence that it'll be a proper German style beer of high quality.
If a homebrewer has won a local competition with a particular beer, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in that. Might be great, might be somewhat mediocre.
Most craft beers and breweries are not "award winning" but that doesn't stop them from producing solid and sometimes spectacular beers.

Yes.

The thing about beer is that even though there are objective standards, the judging is subjective and approximately analogous to gymnastics in that regard.

 

[Donoroto]

My Mom always said "there is no accounting for taste" I always took that to mean that we all like and dislike different things. Is Michelob Ultra a great beer? To some it is, to millions in fact. Doesn't make it good, bad, great or anything else. Sure is popular though

Better marketing than, say, Labatt’s.

 

[Craigerrr]

Better marketing than, say, Labatt’s.

Something like that
Well that, and the price...

 

[Bigbre04]

you know me I'm a fan of Victory malt
you asked which would I prefer and would need a taste
you didn't ask for a critique but why the Cascade in an international Amber? JMO
Rice? good god

critique away! CQI baby CQI.

I have several batches of the second one under my belt, and it is very good, but always down to improve.

Rice wise, I would likely just add a little corn or even just dextrose, i keep about 50lbs on hand.

@Donoroto @J A I have strong feelings on beer reviews. especially untappd and GABF.


Overall, "traditional" styles CAN sell well and CAN get awards, and still get terrible reviews on untappd. which unfortunately is not something that a brewery can ignore. Some breweries have split brands off to increase their untappd scores while still keeping their "core" beers on draft.

GABF is 75% luck in my opinion. I have been several times, made beers that won medals. If you get good judges you could win with a dog of a beer. same goes for most opinion based competitions.

 

[Brew Cat]

Gimme a blu

 

[Brew Cat]

critique away! CQI baby CQI.

I have several batches of the second one under my belt, and it is very good, but always down to improve.

Rice wise, I would likely just add a little corn or even just dextrose, i keep about 50lbs on hand.

@Donoroto @J A I have strong feelings on beer reviews. especially untappd and GABF.


Overall, "traditional" styles CAN sell well and CAN get awards, and still get terrible reviews on untappd. which unfortunately is not something that a brewery can ignore. Some breweries have split brands off to increase their untapped scores while still keeping their "core" beers on draft.

GABF is 75% luck in my opinion. I have been several times, made beers that won medals. If you get good judges you could win with a dog of a beer. same goes for most opinion based competitions.

I know people enter the same beer under different categories the throw stuff at the wall approach

by the way both of those recipes sound good but you labeled the one international I would have expected some European continental hops
I guess your using Canadian malt and if you hit it with the rice and maybe use Tetnanger you'd be international in name alright

 

[Bigbre04]

I know people enter the same beer under different categories the throw stuff at the wall approach

by the way both of those recipes sound good but you labeled the one international I would have expected some European continental hops
I guess your using Canadian malt and if you hit it with the rice and maybe use Tetnanger you'd be international in name alright

ya i made that recipe back before i had any nobles on hand. wouldnt be hard to shift to perle. i also am almost done with the columbus cryo, so i will be headed to magnum until i order more hops.

 

[Donoroto]

I have strong feelings on beer reviews. especially untappd and GABF.

As you should.

Untappd typically doesn’t include knowledgeable beer drinkers, although there is a surfeit of pretentious ones. The great American beer festival is but one beer competition, and imho it suffers from being too large.

I was referring to be judges who are trained and also happen to be good at it, which is not necessarily a given

But yeah, I get it.

 

[Bigbre04]

As you should.

Untappd typically doesn’t include knowledgeable beer drinkers, although there is a surfeit of pretentious ones. The great American beer festival is but one beer competition, and imho it suffers from being too large.

I was referring to be judges who are trained and also happen to be good at it, which is not necessarily a given

But yeah, I get it.

pallet fatigue is a serious thing with those events. the quantity of judges to avoid this in such a huge competition is crazy.

i am a perfect example of the judge thing. i am trained, but i dont have a great pallet.

ya untappd is the worst honestly. they also have made it a status symbol thing with the badges and bs that they now do. which encourages people to review everything even if they dont know a damn thing.

 

[Brew Cat]

It's always been nonsense to me
If I like a beer I like a beer

 

[J A]

i also am almost done with the columbus cryo, so i will be headed to magnum until i order more hops.

Magnum for the win! I almost always use Magnum to bitter and I didn't on this last lager but went with Saaz throughout. It'll be fine but I miss the Magnum already. The Saaz flavor is good but that perfect hit of bitterness from the Magnum really sets up the finish, I think.

I know people enter the same beer under different categories the throw stuff at the wall approach

The best iteration of that is just the right lager that will do nicely in Helles, Kolsch, Cream Ale, American Light Lager, International Lager. The guidelines for all those styles is so similar that you could medal in any or all of them with the same beer.

Untappd typically doesn’t include knowledgeable beer drinkers, although there is a surfeit of pretentious ones.

I don't think I've ever seen anything on Untappd that I thought was remotely useful.

 

[J A]

It's always been nonsense to me
If I like a beer I like a beer

Getting you to like it is secondary...getting you to buy it and try it is the point of any sort of promotion. Maybe you're the sort of person who'll intentionally choose a non-award-winning beer over the one sitting right next to it that has won awards, but I'm sure you'd be in the minority.

 

[Brew Cat]

Like I said awards mean nothing to me
If awards did I'd only drink Sam's Boston Lager which is good beer but I might want to expand
I visited Sam Adams in Boston and the guide was asked how has Sam won so many awards
He answered well because we enter every competition no matter how obscure

 

[Bigbre04]

Like I said awards mean nothing to me
If awards did I'd only drink Sam's Boston Lager which is good beer but I might want to expand
I visited Sam Adams in Boston and the guide was asked how has Sam won so many awards
He answered well because we enter every competition no matter how obscure

that is a real strategy. also the old breweries have had decades of awards.

@J A the awards can be indictive of a good beer, but that also assumes that the QA and consistency is there as well.


I am brewing the second recipe today. trying out doing 15g beta glucanase in each mashin instead of 30 in the whole thing. lets see how it goes!

 

[Brew Cat]

that is a real strategy. also the old breweries have had decades of awards.


So is the beer that entered and won the comp better than the beer that wasn't entered?

 

[Bigbre04]

@Brew Cat naw not necessarily, but someone thought it was good enough to have a chance and was willing to spend the money send it to the competition.

 

[J A]

So is the beer that entered and won the comp better than the beer that wasn't entered?

Again, doesn't matter which beer is ultimately better. It matters which beer you paid money to try. And since you assume that "better" is completely subjective, it won't matter what the beer actually tastes like.
And since it sounds like you're not just neutral to the judging and awards process but actively prejudiced against it, their marketing strategy will never work on you.

 

[Brew Cat]

It might work if not only showing they won a comp but showing me 2nd 3rd and 4th
Then seeing who they actually competed against would maybe spark my interest