Are you saying that is what I have to look forward if I ever manage to retire from commercial concrete?
Yup. Banished to the beer shed/workshop. And hop garden sometimes.
It's a good life.
Man, I gotta get that shed built before I retire...
Ok, Immersion, however, inside a steel thermowell. Not quite as exposed as water heater elements, so not going to burn out if it gets uncovered. I feel your pain with hard water. Just replaced a hot water heater last week because of scale build-up blowing out the bottom element a second time in about 8 years.
Parsing data if it's in a pattern or has marker characters is a piece of cake. I put 26 PLC's in a spelling bee on a Broadband MAP 64 channel network at the Saturn plant back in 1989-1992 for their energy management system. That was no small chore since the GE Series Six Plus had no real alphabetic capabilities. Did it all with ladder logic, math, and boolean functions. I was thinking in hexadecimal and binary for a while after that job. Used some interpreted basic modules that fit in the Six Plus to communicate with some other devices via RS232 and RS422. I've slept a few times, but can't imagine talking to a Tilt or Plaato to be that difficult.
I don't think I'm 100% convinced that zero bubbles per minute means full fermentation. I've had some of mine start back up with a very slight temperature change, or very slight agitation (bumped the ferment bucket bringing it upstairs for bottling). Something actually floating in the beer would seem to be more accurate, however, the sticking krausen and bubbles apparently cause some issues with those. Either way, there's certainly a good way to track fermentation rate with either, even if the final results are less accurate than desired.
As in 1.01 or 1.00001? Some drop the decimal when reading the scale, but specific gravity is usually read out to 3 decimal places. If it's accurate to 5 decimal places, no wonder it looks like dog hair. Wouldn't take much for some pretty erratic readings. If only two decimal places, well, that leaves a bit to be desired. Digital devices are accurate only to the last digit +/- 1. It's a long way from 1.02 to 1.01 in SG, and not very acceptable if it reports 1.00 for anything below 1.01 But I'll say again, I like the ability to trend the fermentation rate. One could learn a lot about different yeasts and different beers with that. That's what's got me eyeballing it.
Mine has been REAL close On OG and FG each time. Like 1 point maybe 2. I’m curious with my current batch since the predicted FG was 1.015 and it’s been at 1.011 for 2 days and still smells like it’s working. I have learned so much since I got it. Learned about temperature changes and in some cases lack thereof. Also how quick the initial fermentation is and that slow trickle of the last point with some yeasts. I’m glad I have it and if I get to doing more batches at a time I’ll buy another. This summer when I get a new tablet, since mine is full And slow, I’ll leave this one plugged in an on so I can see even more data.
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Ya. That is not good enough, even for trending
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The SG on the tilt are pretty much bang on. Temp is dependant on where it is floating. It is also only floating about 3" down. But it gives pretty good results
My error, missed a zero. It is accurate as my glass hydrometer, 1.001. It happily reads below 1.000, IIRC the useful range is 0.990 to 1.120.
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I use the refractometer for an initial reading then only the tilt after that. Lets face it if your tilt FG is off by .003 , what you gunna do, call Ghostbusters? Toss the whole batch? No, your going to drink and enjoy.
The tilt floats in a sea of floating goo that is constantly moving and rolling while active fermentation is going on. The "Goo" gets stuck to just like the inside of your fermenter, remember cleaning day? it's doing a great job to get within .003 or .004. But the SG and temp tracking can't be beat. I know exactly when it is fermentation is when I want it to add dry hops or when it is done fermenting to continue with d rest or cold crash. The info it provides along with Brewers Friends tracking are worth every penny.
The tilt floats in a sea of floating goo that is constantly moving and rolling while active fermentation is going on. The "Goo" gets stuck to just like the inside of your fermenter, remember cleaning day? it's doing a great job to get within .003 or .004. But the SG and temp tracking can't be beat. I know exactly when it is fermentation is when I want it to add dry hops or when it is done fermenting to continue with d rest or cold crash. The info it provides along with Brewers Friends tracking are worth every penny.
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Oh if I don't have them submerged they will absolutely burn out.
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Hence "immersion" element!
I love how this thread just totally hung a left at Albuquerque!
Nyaaaaaaaah whats up Doc!
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I did that to one of mine once. BIAB clogged up and the circ pump evacuated the space under the bag. killed a heating element and burned a hole in the bag.
was my fault, I knew better than to turn on the kettle heat.
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dont they all though? my "less than clear lager" thread has turned into a discussion about ale yeast, lol
That's more like it. Had me worried for a minute. As for the left turn mentioned, at least the subject remained hardware related. What I might be more interested in with the immersion heaters is maybe using a hands-free device like a Tilt or Plaato coupled with a small heater and a cooling chamber to control and narrow up the bandwidth on the fermenting temperature. Not sure how much difference it would actually make, but I'm a noob, relatively speaking, and like exploring the different variables. It's why I do this. These devices can give a really good and safe look at what's going on with the process, and certainly lead to better consistency from one batch to the next. Even with the warts, either device still looks pretty darn good for tracking performance of a lot of different variables in beer-making.
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I agree, my ability to understand what is happening in that stainless barrel has gone up 10 fold since I got a tilt and can see exactly what it going on, with no risk of opening the fermenter or wasting product on testing.
As for temp control using the tilt as the sensor? I am sure it is possible if you either use the raw data from the tilt to provide data to a control program. I dont use the tilt for control, but I do exactly what you are considering. a temp controller with a probe in the beer. a small heater (aquarium heater) and a glycol chiller are cycled on and off to control temp. I can keep the temp of the beer being fermented within about +/- 0.3°F even when actively fermenting.
To get back on track at least a little bit though, if you have all the latest Win10 updates on an older computer, your PC may be your friend. I find that most of the sleep functions of my aging desktop have ceased to work at all, and my machine is staying awake at all times. Even the video. That would make a perfect data collector, if it had Bluetooth hardware. Alas, I didn't think I'd need it when I bought the machine, and it was optional at that time for desktops. I figured WiFi and thick wire ethernet would cover everything I'd ever want to do with it. I've double, triple, and quadruple checked the settings. They're exactly where I want them, but not doing the job they did before the last round of updates[and yes, my computer is plugged in and I have rebooted it]. I must have SOMETHING set to wake it or keep it awake (probably Windows Update set that way by Microsoft and unchangeable). Finding the culprit is the trick, much like possibly selecting the right parameter to keep the Kindle awake. Having a Kindle or two around as well, I might consider using the app and BF, but only if I can get the data back at my leisure to have a closer look and do my own analysis.They don't use as much energy as a PC, and pretty sure it can run a background app while playing music (to no headphones) to stay awake. The screen will still blank, but it won't shut off. I use my Kindle for a bluetooth player in my truck sometimes. Keep it pluged in to a power source to keep the battery up, it'll play music forever. If it ain't connected to speakers or bluetooth audio device, who care's what it plays?
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I bookmarked both the Tilt and Plaato for more reading. Tilt angle versus bubble counting, hmmmmm. Could argue the air-lock method is cleaner, but after my last three batches coming through the air-lock, maybe not. Then again, knowing the ferment temperature might give me the opportunity to prevent that by slowing fermentation just a little bit. I'd have to have a second unit on stand-by if the air-lock got plugged with yeast/krausen. One would think the ENTIRE fermentation cycle information would be valuable, but if the fermentation process is so aggressive that a blow-off is needed for a couple days, I can see where the Plaato might not be the optimal hardware. To each his own, but it's looking like a 'floater' is going to win my decision.
Certainly can't do much about other thoughts popping into my head that are related to the subject (temperature/SG monitoring/control) or something I see in a picture in the thread (the immersion heater). I try to keep it relevant, but sometimes feel a need to ask questions about what I see. I guess I could grab the quote and start a new thread, but call me lazy or ADD if that's what needs to happen. I've been called a lot worse by people that actually know me, and that didn't bother me either. I'm not sure how I'd create a new thread from a quote, or if that's even possible in this forum. OH, LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!! I have a 13 year old granddaughter that's lived with us since she was 2 months old. Her complete lack of attention span I'm sure is contagious. Good thing her lack of filter isn't. 13 year olds can get away with a lot more sarcasm than adults, and with her, there's never a doubt about what she's thinking, if you can keep up.
As for what I was saying/asking about the immersion heater, I was trying to clarify if when the element fails, does it blow a hole in the SS thermowell and destroy/contaminate the batch, or just simply quit working. Sterility shouldn't be an issue if you're about to boil something, right? But carbon/slag contamination probably would be a big no-no for a flavor enhancer. So, can it be removed and replaced without transferring the batch to another vessel while you repair? Feel free to reply to this with a status message or whatever the heck they call it on here to get it out of the thread so it doesn't bother anyone. I have access to many different sizes of similar heater for air-chamber heaters to keep electrical switchgear dry. Both thermowell type, as well as exposed cal-rod type.
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I bookmarked both the Tilt and Plaato for more reading. Tilt angle versus bubble counting, hmmmmm. Could argue the air-lock method is cleaner, but after my last three batches coming through the air-lock, maybe not. Then again, knowing the ferment temperature might give me the opportunity to prevent that by slowing fermentation just a little bit. I'd have to have a second unit on stand-by if the air-lock got plugged with yeast/krausen. One would think the ENTIRE fermentation cycle information would be valuable, but if the fermentation process is so aggressive that a blow-off is needed for a couple days, I can see where the Plaato might not be the optimal hardware. To each his own, but it's looking like a 'floater' is going to win my decision.
Certainly can't do much about other thoughts popping into my head that are related to the subject (temperature/SG monitoring/control) or something I see in a picture in the thread (the immersion heater). I try to keep it relevant, but sometimes feel a need to ask questions about what I see. I guess I could grab the quote and start a new thread, but call me lazy or ADD if that's what needs to happen. I've been called a lot worse by people that actually know me, and that didn't bother me either. I'm not sure how I'd create a new thread from a quote, or if that's even possible in this forum. OH, LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!! I have a 13 year old granddaughter that's lived with us since she was 2 months old. Her complete lack of attention span I'm sure is contagious. Good thing her lack of filter isn't. 13 year olds can get away with a lot more sarcasm than adults, and with her, there's never a doubt about what she's thinking, if you can keep up.
As for what I was saying/asking about the immersion heater, I was trying to clarify if when the element fails, does it blow a hole in the SS thermowell and destroy/contaminate the batch, or just simply quit working. Sterility shouldn't be an issue if you're about to boil something, right? But carbon/slag contamination probably would be a big no-no for a flavor enhancer. So, can it be removed and replaced without transferring the batch to another vessel while you repair? Feel free to reply to this with a status message or whatever the heck they call it on here to get it out of the thread so it doesn't bother anyone. I have access to many different sizes of similar heater for air-chamber heaters to keep electrical switchgear dry. Both thermowell type, as well as exposed cal-rod type.
Lower SG normally means trouble, but a bubble stuck to it could be causing that, too. As I said, anything that gives a digital readout is only as accurate as the last digit, plus/minus 1, i.e, 2 points in the case of the Tilt. That's completely acceptable, and I'm likely to check the final with a hydrometer (I bought one, right?) anyway. But, I have to put on reading glasses to see the tiny lines on that thing, and sort of extrapolate the value if it's between lines, much like a digital device would behave. I typically round up on my hydrometer readings, never down, if it's between lines.
