Phenolic cause

[Steve Haskell]

I’ve been home brewing for about four years and brew five gallon batches of multiple types using manual equipment and controllers. For the first time I brewed a Belgian Dubbel all grain batch and for the first time my beer had a spicy clove & pepper aroma and taste. The head retention is poor also. My recipe is cookbook straight out of BeerSmith, don’t understand what happened. What is the most likely cause?

 

[Minbari]

What kind of yeast? Most Belgian yeast strains produce interesting flavors even more so if ideal temps are not maintained

 

[Steve Haskell]

Lallemand Abbaye Belgian, 1 pkg (11 g) with 1 liter starter. OG was 1.074. Fermented for 12 days in temp. controlled fermenter (+/- 1C) @ 65F. FG was 1.018. The ferment seemed to go well.

 

[Donoroto]

Clove and peppery sounds kinda normal for a belgian yeast. So that might be a 'wanted' phenolic.

Unwanted phenolics come from high fermentation temperatures and other yeast stressors.

 

[Minbari]

Agree with @Donoroto . sounds Like you made a belgian

 

[Zambi]

I concur
The taste for Belgian beers generally comes from the yeast.
You were nearer the lower end of fermentation temperature, but definitely within the range. And way within alcohol tolerance

 

[Steve Haskell]

Thanks for helping me better understand my Belgian ale. I’m self taught and thought clove was a red flag. I can fix the head retention, carbonation issues. Thanks again and happy brewing.

 

[Ale_Man]

https://admin.lallemandbrewing.com/...3/05/TDS_LPS_BREWINGYEAST_ABBAYE_ENG_A4-2.pdf

yes, this yeast is POF+, and clove is a normal phenolic flavor/aroma For this. Y

 

[Tigermoth]

I’ve been home brewing for about four years and brew five gallon batches of multiple types using manual equipment and controllers. For the first time I brewed a Belgian Dubbel all grain batch and for the first time my beer had a spicy clove & pepper aroma and taste. The head retention is poor also. My recipe is cookbook straight out of BeerSmith, don’t understand what happened. What is the most likely cause?

Although yes it can be normal for some Belgian yeasts, sometimes it can be due to wild yeast getting into the brew but you can't be sure about that either without a laboratory test to see what yeasts you have in your brew. I have used the same yeast and haven't noticed that flavour from it. I have used a Kentish yeast and that did have that spicy clove taste.

 

[Ale_Man]

Although yes it can be normal for some Belgian yeasts, sometimes it can be due to wild yeast getting into the brew but you can't be sure about that either without a laboratory test to see what yeasts you have in your brew. I have used the same yeast and haven't noticed that flavour from it. I have used a Kentish yeast and that did have that spicy clove taste.

But the OP told us what yeast he pitched and his fermentation temps. The phenolics, as described, are typical for this yeast per the manufacturer. It sure appears like a successfully brewed beer. It seems as though he experienced a clove tasting belgian yeast fermented beer for the first time. There doesn’t need to be a rabbit hole to go down - As far as the phenolics. It isn’t a strange off flavor.

As to your experience with the same yeast, Perhaps your temperature regimen during fermentation suppressed the clove phenolic. Nothing wrong with that either.

Now the poor head retention May be something to chase, but I believe the clove phenolics are not a problem. Just my $0.02.

 

[Tigermoth]

But the OP told us what yeast he pitched and his fermentation temps. The phenolics, as described, are typical for this yeast per the manufacturer. It sure appears like a successfully brewed beer. It seems as though he experienced a clove tasting belgian yeast fermented beer for the first time. There doesn’t need to be a rabbit hole to go down - As far as the phenolics. It isn’t a strange off flavor.

As to your experience with the same yeast, Perhaps your temperature regimen during fermentation suppressed the clove phenolic. Nothing wrong with that either.

Now the poor head retention May be something to chase, but I believe the clove phenolics are not a problem. Just my $0.02.

Yes you are quite right Ale_Man it is easy to go down rabbit holes chasing something that isn't there, I agree with what you are saying. Personally I don't like that clove taste, for me it doesn't seem right but many like it.

 

[Craigerrr]

Do Belgian ale yeasts have a banana / clove balance which can swing one way or the other depending on fermentation temperature?

 

[Tigermoth]

That's a difficult question, if you mean can you get say a banana taste from lower temperature and clove from higher temperature I don't know, but for Belgian Abbey Ale yeast do give banana / spice notes and the fermentation temperature range is usually 18*C - 22*C (65-72*F). If you want less estery taste you may want to ferment at the lower temperature range.

 

[Zambi]

Do Belgian ale yeasts have a banana / clove balance which can swing one way or the other depending on fermentation temperature?

It definitely depends per yeast.

I think the whole cloves thing is more for the German wheat beer yeasts.

I've not had any cloves with any if the Belgian yeasts I've used. I have had banana. I've also had a full phenolic batch when I let the temperature get way too high on M47. Funny thing is that I had a batch of beer and a batch of cider at the same time. The beer became drinkable, the cider never did