Help Needed for my 2024 Resolution: Better Efficiency

[cstout]

Hello all,

I've spent the bulk of 2023 adjusting to my latest brewing setup. I've moved over to electric w/BIAB method using the Ss Brewtech SVBS. It's been a joy to use - but - I'm having a very difficult time with efficiency. I've done a handful of community recipes and crafted a few of my own and, if I were to pick one stat that always off, my ABV is just about always .5-1% off from the recipe that I made. So, I guess my first question to everybody is - is this normal? Do I have a wrong expectation here?

I know there are a ton of variables to consider, which is a large part of why I'm having such a hard time tracking down the source. I log all my brews in Brewfather and have access to all the brew data over the last year on this new system. I use the built in equipment profiles for the SVBS in Brewfather and, as Ss Brewtech recommends, I mash with recirculation and boil with whirlpool. My water is reverse osmosis and I use a water flow control meter to dispense the exact amount of water that Brewfather's water calculator shows for the particular recipe I'm following. Additionally, I started crushing my own grain with a Mighty Mill 3 Roller Grain Mill on the finest setting which is recommended for BIAB.

The beer I've made over the last year has been quite good...I'd like to improve though. Thanks everyone, and happy new year!

 

[Craigerrr]

It could be as simple as adjusting your efficiency number in Brewfather, and then scaling the recipe. It will increase your fermentables to suit, and resulting water requirements.
If you are under gravity, you could just add some DME to get to desired gravity. There is a calculator here, and on Brewfather to calculate the amount of DME to get from gravity X to gravity Y.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Are you not hitting your intended OG? Are you not getting the attenuation your were shooting for? Not sure where to start giving any advice.

The advice I always give to newer brewers is to boil for gravity and not volume. Track your efficiency and plug the average in your calculator. Typical efficiency is @75%. For some it’s higher and others it’s lower. It’s important to understand what your setup is capable of as far as efficiency and then build your recipes around it.

 

[Donoroto]

As mentioned, is it that your OG is lower, or your attenuation is lower? What kinds of numbers are you seeing? Are they consistent from batch to batch?

Low OG can be grain crush, mash temperatures, or grain choice.

Low attenuation from the yeast could be mash temperature, fermentation temperature, yeast health, and sometimes bad luck.

As also mentioned, it could be that the recipe efficiency needs adjustment, especially if your numbers are consistent.

 

[cstout]

Thank you all for the valuable info. I took some time tonight to take my last eight batches on this new system and have the side by side info for what the recipe in Brewfather calculated for estimates based on my equipment profile vs what I actually saw.

SVBS - All recipe values are calculated by Brewfather. All actual values are from Anton Paar EasyDens.

Batch 1 (NB all grain kit, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.059/1.056
recipe/actual FG: 1.012/1.008
recipe/actual ABV: 6.2/6.7

Batch 2 (all grain, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.051/1.047
recipe/actual FG: 1.014/1.011
recipe/actual ABV: 4.9/4.7

Batch 3 (all grain, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.053/1.047
recipe/actual FG: 1.012/1.009
recipe/actual ABV: 5.4/5.0

Batch 4 (all grain, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.072/1.059
recipe/actual FG: 1.014/1.012
recipe/actual ABV: 7.6/6.4

Batch 5 (all grain, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.058/1.051
recipe/actual FG: 1.010/1.008
recipe/actual ABV: 6.3/5.6

Batch 6 (all grain, pre-milled)
recipe/actual OG: 1.058/1.058
recipe/actual FG: 1.016/1.009
recipe/actual ABV: 5.5/6.4

Batch 7 (all grain, milled myself, tightest-0.025" gap)
recipe/actual OG: 1.048/1.037
recipe/actual FG: 1.007/1.004
recipe/actual ABV: 5.4/4.3

Batch 8 (all grain, milled myself, tightest-0.025" gap)
recipe/actual OG: 1.066/1.054
recipe/actual FG: 1.015/1.007
recipe/actual ABV: 6.7/6.2

 

[Minbari]

Are you not hitting your intended OG? Are you not getting the attenuation your were shooting for? Not sure where to start giving any advice.

The advice I always give to newer brewers is to boil for gravity and not volume. Track your efficiency and plug the average in your calculator. Typical efficiency is @75%. For some it’s higher and others it’s lower. It’s important to understand what your setup is capable of as far as efficiency and then build your recipes around it.

This! If you hit the gravity you were shooting for, then you did it right. After that you want to see if you are hitting FG after fermentation. Less ABV can be incomplete fermentation as well as an efficiency issue at mash.

Things to look for when mashing. Did all the starches get converted? What temp are you mashing at? (Higher temps can denature the enzymes)

 

[DarkVader2]

I don't know if this will improve your efficiency much or not, but I have a question and one suggestion regarding milling the grain.

First the question. When you used pre-milled grains, how fine was the grain crushed? Before I invested in my own grain mill, I found that the only local supplier who would mill the grains for me had a a wide setting on the mill which provided, in my opinion, only a so-so crush.

When I used to do BIAB, I would run the grain through the mill twice to make sure I got a thorough crush. You shouldn't have to worry about a stuck mash with BIAB.

 

[Sandy Feet]

What are your mashing temps? Are you using adjuncts? Where do have your efficiency set in the software?

 

[Craigerrr]

You may want to pick one of your recipes, and brew it consecutively until you dial in your efficiency, volumes, etc, and start hitting all of your numbers.
This of course is the best advice that I never listened to...
My more experienced self would tell me less experienced self that I should have listened to this advice.
I see one higher gravity brew there on your list, you won't get the same efficiency with this one, it will be lower.
That is a pretty slick looking system by the way!
If you do pick one recipe to brew consecutively, post up the recipe here, and let us know your results.
As mentioned above, you could boil down to hit gravity, but I normally prefer to add DME up to gravity.
My reasoning for this is the affect on boil hops, and bitterness.
To each their own YMMV

 

[Donoroto]

What I see is, with few exceptions, that your recipe efficiency needs to be lowered a bit (not sure how on grainfather, but it is a setting somewhere) and your typical yeast attenuation needs to be increased a bit. Those changes will have the recipe tool better predicting the outcomes of your system.

Those last batches, where you milled the grain, have a bigger drop in efficiency. You might consider opening up the gap to, say, 0.040-ish, then double-milling it (run it through twice). Just beware that the mash will be more prone to getting stuck, so consider 1/2-1 pound of rice hulls mixed in.

 

[Minbari]

I don't know if this will improve your efficiency much or not, but I have a question and one suggestion regarding milling the grain.

First the question. When you used pre-milled grains, how fine was the grain crushed? Before I invested in my own grain mill, I found that the only local supplier who would mill the grains for me had a a wide setting on the mill which provided, in my opinion, only a so-so crush.

When I used to do BIAB, I would run the grain through the mill twice to make sure I got a thorough crush. You shouldn't have to worry about a stuck mash with BIAB.

idealy you would grind in to flour, but good luck mashing it that way, lol. I have mine set to 0.026" and ussualy do a double pass.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

You might consider opening up the gap to, say, 0.040-ish, then double-milling it

This brings up a question I've always had. Is there a significant difference between shrinking the mill gap and double crushing? Both will give you grain that is crushed into smaller pieces.

 

[Minbari]

This brings up a question I've always had. Is there a significant difference between shrinking the mill gap and double crushing? Both will give you grain that is crushed into smaller pieces.

not necessarily. it will only make the peices smaller if the piece happens to go through sideways (so to speak) and get crushed again. a wider gap will lessen that likelyhood.

I always run through twice, the second run through goes through almost faster than I can pour it.

 

[cstout]

I didn't get notified about all these great posts since Thursday - thank you all.

Most of those brews were using a high fermentability mash @ 149° for an hour.

As far as the pre-milled grains go, I'm not sure how fine they were crushed, but it didn't seem as fine as what I'm getting now by doing it myself. I've got my mill as tight as it'll go (0.025" gap) but I've not yet tried milling twice.

I'm not using any adjuncts and my equipment profile is set to 66% brewhouse/69% mash efficiency.

One of the things I've been wondering about is the water. If there's something off in my equipment profile, I'm curious if I'm starting these brews off with too much water. Especially if some of the recommendations to fix the issue I'm seeing would be to boil longer until OG is correct. That's a really good point on the longer boil affecting the hops/bitterness too.

I love the idea of brewing a recipe to compare results. The next brew I have planned is a repeat of batch #3 which was a hit.

 

[Craigerrr]

Batch #3 was a pre-milled malt bill, so if you brew it next, this would be your first baseline batch for this one.
Batch #6 was one that you milled, to rebrew that with the same gap and process might get you to your goal of consistency one batch quicker...
Some say that for BIAB you should mill as fine as possible, but I am not sure that I agree with that.
Personally I think you still need some good sized husks to help with getting the mash well mixed.
Whatever you do, do it the same each time you brew.
Do you stir at all during the mash?
Boil length isn't an "issue" in itself, but you can boil longer to get to the desired gravity if needed to solve whatever the issue is.
I assume that with your BIAB set up you are dumping everything into the fermenter?
Maybe check your profile to see if you have a value under kettle loss, if everything goes into the fermenter, zero out that value it will mess with your water requirements.
Also, don't get hung up on what your efficiency is, you just need to figure out what it is and update your profile with that number.

 

[Minbari]

Honestly, I would work on consistency first. Make sure you are hitting your gravity numbers for 10 brews and then worry about what you can do to make efficiency go up.
Starch testing, temp, time...... extra enzymes. All can help, but if you don't get your gravity correct it won't matter.

One thing I do, to avoid the extra boil time method. Don't top up the boil kettle to what it says. Like a 5 gallon batch might say you need to boil 6.5 gallons. Just make it 5-5.5 gallons. Boil and then see what your gravity is. (It should be high) then use a dilution calc to add water to hit your mark. If you have 4.5 or 5 or 5.5 gallons at the end, at least the OG is correct and your FG prediction will be closer

 

[Herm brews]

I think grain crush is part of the equation for improving BIAB efficiency. My 2 roller mill allows for a much tighter mill gap - mine is set at ~0.020, which in a single pass gives plenty of flour. When I first started, the lhbs where I got grains had their mill set to 0.025, and my efficiency improved when I started double milling the grains. That would probably be a good start to improving your efficiency - put your grains through the mill twice.

 

[Hawkbox]

They've covered things pretty well, my 2 cents, if you want higher efficiency stir your mash more, it helps a few percent. I can't be bothered personally, I just adjust my numbers until it matches my reality. Also if you leave it longer you'll get higher efficiency but it's diminishing returns really fast. I left one mashing for 6 hours yesterday cause I was off making axes and forgot about it, I ended up at 78% final efficiency rather than 70% which is my normal.

 

[Brewer #418766]

I am having problems with Northern Brewer supplying the crushed grain for me.
I just started All-Grain last summer. My first two batches were wonderful!
I tried making the same recipe from Northern Brewer that I made last September.
Last September, the OG was at 1.070
In January, I received a new kit of ingredients. I didn't inspect the grain to see if it was all crushed. I just expected it was because that is what I ordered. I could see some grain was crushed.
The OG turned out to be 1.020. What? Something is wrong! I inspected the post mash grain and it was obvious that the base grain was not crushed.
Northern Brewer sent me a replacement kit, except for the yeast. They made my purchase that and pay for shipping, OUCH!
I inspected this grain before mashing it, and it seemed like some of it was crushed, some of it barely had a dent, and some of it was not even touched.
The OG turned out to be 1.050.
Better, but not like the September batch.
The biggest thing I noticed is when recirculating, and sparging. In the September batch, the water would take some time to go through the grain. In the Jan/Feb batches, the water runs through the grain in seconds rather than minutes. Very little resistance to flow in Jan/Feb.
I'm trying to decide if I need to purchase a grain mill. Most forums talk about purchasing your grain pre-crushed is very inconsistent. I'm experiencing that it makes a big difference.

 

[Minbari]

I am having problems with Northern Brewer supplying the crushed grain for me.
I just started All-Grain last summer. My first two batches were wonderful!
I tried making the same recipe from Northern Brewer that I made last September.
Last September, the OG was at 1.070
In January, I received a new kit of ingredients. I didn't inspect the grain to see if it was all crushed. I just expected it was because that is what I ordered. I could see some grain was crushed.
The OG turned out to be 1.020. What? Something is wrong! I inspected the post mash grain and it was obvious that the base grain was not crushed.
Northern Brewer sent me a replacement kit, except for the yeast. They made my purchase that and pay for shipping, OUCH!
I inspected this grain before mashing it, and it seemed like some of it was crushed, some of it barely had a dent, and some of it was not even touched.
The OG turned out to be 1.050.
Better, but not like the September batch.
The biggest thing I noticed is when recirculating, and sparging. In the September batch, the water would take some time to go through the grain. In the Jan/Feb batches, the water runs through the grain in seconds rather than minutes. Very little resistance to flow in Jan/Feb.
I'm trying to decide if I need to purchase a grain mill. Most forums talk about purchasing your grain pre-crushed is very inconsistent. I'm experiencing that it makes a big difference.

Water will run through the grain much more quickly if the crush is really course (or not at all) so it sounds like the sep batch was crushed more properly.

If you need more of push to get your own mill. You can buy in bulk! . It is easy cheaper that way and since it is not crushed the grain will store for years.