Blondish Belgian IPA, value your thoughts.

[Brewer #400075]

Guess we were posting at the same time. Got to watch the alphas in those things. 12 & 14 aa go a looooong way. I went back to look at my Belgian recipes. I used Saaz in all of them. I used a little Hallertau in the first one. I used some Fuggle in the second. I used a Saaz/EKG combination in the Saisons. All of them are low alpha hops (my preference). It is a cool idea but remember that most of what makes those Belgian styles is the yeast characteristics. Hops are great, but you don't want so many as to bury the flavors produced by the yeast.

I was thinking the late boil additions would pull more of the aromatics rather than contribute to the bittering. Only the Magnum is there the full 60 minutes, the rest are within 20 minutes after the boil. When are your hops added in your recipe?

I'm also not wanting to kill the flavors produced by the yeast, rather, I want to enhance them with hops. the yeast is exceptionally fruity at higher ferment temps and you don't get much fruitier than Citra, Galaxy, and El Dorado. The high alcohol will provide sweetness to mask a lot of the bitterness.

That was my line of thinking in developing this.. and why I am really glad to get feedback from you guys.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I use low alpha hops, and the Aa are much less predictable these days. I like to do bittering additions around 60 or 45 to get my IBUs in the mid 30s. Going aggressive like you are, I might go more for 10 minute additions. You speak of sweet. Belgian yeasts finish fairly low. Looking at mine, I was around 1.009 or 1.010. My Saisons were 1.002 and 1.006. If you want sweetness, some of the honey needs to be added post fermentation be careful of blowing things up as it might start fermenting again with residual yeast. Honey is mostly fermentable.

 

[Brewer #400075]

I use low alpha hops, and the Aa are much less predictable these days. I like to do bittering additions around 60 or 45 to get my IBUs in the mid 30s. Going aggressive like you are, I might go more for 10 minute additions. You speak of sweet. Belgian yeasts finish fairly low. Looking at mine, I was around 1.009 or 1.010. My Saisons were 1.002 and 1.006. If you want sweetness, some of the honey needs to be added post fermentation be careful of blowing things up as it might start fermenting again with residual yeast. Honey is mostly fermentable.

I was referring more to the sweetness high alcohol has. Most people will perceive a beer with the same IBU's, with lower alcohol, as tasting more bitter than a beer with the same IBU's with a higher alcohol content. If you look at my hop additions there are only 2 added before the 10 minute mark.You need a long boil to form the Iso-alpha acids that create the bitterness in beer, those late additions are going to have more of an affect on the aroma and taste rather than bitterness.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I was referring more to the sweetness high alcohol has. Most people will perceive a beer with the same IBU's, with lower alcohol, as tasting more bitter than a beer with the same IBU's with a higher alcohol content. If you look at my hop additions there are only 2 added before the 10 minute mark.You need a long boil to form the Iso-alpha acids that create the bitterness in beer, those late additions are going to have more of an affect on the aroma and taste rather than bitterness.

Software will adjust IBUs and alcohol. To me, the high alcohol beers that have sweetness are because they have not attenuated that low. Belgian yeasts attenuate and get dryer. The fruitiness is from the esters. I was not trying to contridict, but the ways you get sweet: Maybe a little Munich for maltiness, Cara something or Crystal, a low attenuating yeast like a Fullers, flaked corn, or adding sweetness after fermentation. I, personally do not perceive sweetness with alcohol unless it is cooked ( I use a rum marinade on steaks). I am here to learn as well and am just providing a discussion. Yes, the 10 minute additions will be mostly on the nose and flavor. Use the software to put you in the IBU neighborhood that you want.

 

[Brewer #400075]

Software will adjust IBUs and alcohol. To me, the high alcohol beers that have sweetness are because they have not attenuated that low. Belgian yeasts attenuate and get dryer. The fruitiness is from the esters. I was not trying to contridict, but the ways you get sweet: Maybe a little Munich for maltiness, Cara something or Crystal, a low attenuating yeast like a Fullers, flaked corn, or adding sweetness after fermentation. I, personally do not perceive sweetness with alcohol unless it is cooked ( I use a rum marinade on steaks). I am here to learn as well and am just providing a discussion. Yes, the 10 minute additions will be mostly on the nose and flavor. Use the software to put you in the IBU neighborhood that you want.

I'm not looking to make it sweet, only stating that the sweetness of the higher alcohol will reduce the perception of bitterness. These hops with high AA, the Cohumulone level of a lot these high AA hops is relatively low as a percentage, roughly 20% where the Cohumulone levels in hops with low AA of say Cascade can be over 40. So hops with lower AA values can provide more bitterness than hops with twice or even three times the AA value especially if they are added early to the boil.

 

[Donoroto]

I'm not looking to make it sweet, only stating that the sweetness of the higher alcohol will reduce the perception of bitterness. These hops with high AA, the Cohumulone level of a lot these high AA hops is relatively low as a percentage, roughly 20% where the Cohumulone levels in hops with low AA of say Cascade can be over 40. So hops with lower AA values can provide more bitterness than hops with twice or even three times the AA value especially if they are added early to the boil.

I agree, those later additions won't contribute much to bitterness. My earlier comment was more on the different varieties, not so much the quantities.

 

[Brewer #400075]

Just an update, I made a few grain modifications to this recipe and brewed it. Swapped Magnum for Mosaic, thought I had Magnum on hand but forgot to update my inventory spreadsheet, doubt there will be much difference. Rest of the hop profile remained the same, backed off on quantities just a bit in case this recipe is a bust. If it's good I can ramp up the next brew. I have to do 16 gallon batches, it takes 4 gallons just to get above my false bottom in my setup so it gets expensive.

It looks to be just about done fermenting this AM. I'll give it a couple week rest and report back with the taste test and final recipe. The wort tasted great but doesn't it always?

 

[Zambi]

Wow, those are big amounts!

I do a maximum of 3 gallons, making it very easy to experiment