Blondish Belgian IPA, value your thoughts.

[Brewer #400075]

I figure it's time to try my own recipes rather than someone else's and you guys are so good at this, I was wondering if I could get come feedback on this recipe. I really value constructive input so thank you tremendously in advance.

Drumroll please............

El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA

Ingredients:

FERMENTABLES

• 5.5 lb Maris Otter malt
• 5.0 lb Vienna malt
• 1.0 lb CaraFoam malt
• 1.0 lb Melanoidin malt
• 0.5 lb Flaked White Wheat
• 0.25 lb Sprouted oats (rolled)

• 1lb Honey (In Florida we use Orange blossom)

HOPS

• 0.5 oz (14 g) Magnum hops, 12% a.a. (60 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (20 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (10 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Galaxy hops, 14% a.a. (5 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (hop stand)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Galaxy hops, 14% a.a. (hop stand)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (dry hop)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) El Dorado, 14% a.a. (dry hop)

YEAST

Abbaye Belgian Style Ale Yeast – Lallemand Dry

Calc Spec's:

Yield: 6 Gallons
Original Gravity: 1.5
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV: 6.7
IBU: 75
SRM: 7.1
Efficiency: 80%

Directions:

Mash flaked wheat and oats only at 122°F for 20 minutes in 5 gallons of water. Increase mash temperature to 158°, dough-in the remainder of the grain bill and add your first hop addition. Maintain mash temperature at 148° for 60 minutes. Mashout at 167°F for 10 minutes. Bring wort to a boil for 60 minutes. After the 60 minute boil turn off the heat, remove the previous hop additions and add the hop stand additions and steep for 20 minutes. After the 20 minute steep, bring your remaining volume up to 6 gallons using 33° water and further chill your wort to 74°. Pitch your yeast. Ferment at 74°F. When primary fermentation is finished, add the dry hop additions for 5 days. Remove dry hops, allow 21 days maturation at 65°, cold crash for 4 days at 33°. Keg or bottle using your preferred method to achieve ~2.2 volumes of carbonation.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Haven't brewed alot of Belgians mate so i cant add any valuable input but your sprouted oats intreaged me.

Care to indulge me a little ...

Oh don't they (Belgians) bulk up their beers with sugar?

 

[Brewer #400075]

Sprouted oats can be found at health food stores, recently costco had them in 5 pound bags. I see a decent improvement in head retention using them over plain rolled/flaked and the creaminess of it through a stout spout is fantastic. Not as hazy as plain rolled. Need to leave good headspace in the fermenter using them and a blowoff tube just in case.

Yes on the sugar but I'm surrounded by apiaries, get it for cheap, and the residual flavor from orange blossom honey is great with citrusy hops. Especially in shock top clones.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Sprouted oats can be found at health food stores, recently costco had them in 5 pound bags. I see a decent improvement in head retention using them over plain rolled/flaked and the creaminess of it through a stout spout is fantastic. Not as hazy as plain rolled. Need to leave good headspace in the fermenter using them and a blowoff tube just in case.

Yes on the sugar but I'm surrounded by apiaries, get it for cheap, and the residual flavor from orange blossom honey is great with citrusy hops. Especially in shock top clones.

Wow I learn something new with brewing every day.

Oh they'd be like "Activated" almonds.
Meaning they've partially gone through the malting process sorta like Chit Malt...?

You'd use them most beers with the purported better head retention then.

 

[Zambi]

I do like and brew Belgian beers, but I don't have enough experience to read a recipe and figure out what it tastes like.

Anyway, most Belgian beers have quite a simple grain bill.
Sugar? Some have up to 20% but some don't use sugar at all. Depends on the style.
I would probably go for noble hops plus citra to stay closer to the Belgian styles.

But it is your beer, so just go for it as planned.
Then next brew, change out one or 2 things and compare

Good luck, have fun and it will be beer

 

[Brewer #400075]

Meaning they've partially gone through the malting process sorta like Chit Malt...?

You'd use them most beers with the purported better head retention then.

Not necessarily, I should have further clarified my response (thoughts happening faster than my fingers), Oats typically have a negative affect in head retention especially when used in large amounts. The sprouted oats seem to reduce that problem while still adding mouthfeel and increasing the viscosity of the wort with beta glucans. High IBU's (iso-alpha acids) and proteins from the wheat are "foam positive" and there is some component of sprouted oats that modifies the head making it more... frothy rather than sudsy. So IPA's with a lot of hops and wheat added to the grist create a lot of foam, the added sprouted oats slightly modifies it and seems to increase it's surface tension making it last longer and the bubbles much smaller, especially when poured through a stout spot. I have had issues with fermentation's blowing through airlocks when using it in high IBU and protein beers. Sorry for the confusion.

Anytime I am adding wheat to the grist I like to add the sprouted oats. In my observations they are contributing a noticeable improvement to the structure of the head.

 

[Brewer #400075]

I do like and brew Belgian beers, but I don't have enough experience to read a recipe and figure out what it tastes like.

Anyway, most Belgian beers have quite a simple grain bill.
Sugar? Some have up to 20% but some don't use sugar at all. Depends on the style.
I would probably go for noble hops plus citra to stay closer to the Belgian styles.

But it is your beer, so just go for it as planned.
Then next brew, change out one or 2 things and compare

Good luck, have fun and it will be beer

The great thing about brewing is the ability to deviate and try new things. Sometimes when you do that you do something that really isn't in a particular style but if you are asked to define the beer you are attempting to make you have to chose the style it is the closest too. My recipe is a conglomeration of tastes and ideas that I think would make a good beer to drink based on the attributes of the ingredients. Some guys might look at it and think, nope, here's why it wont because..... Or have their own ideas how to improve it.

I'm pretty sure that's how the Mango Habanero IPA's were conceived.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Just a few things/thoughts: I have tried a more sessionable Belgian with moderately decent results and a couple of Saisons that were quite tasty after they sat for a little bit.
1. Your Belgian beers are typically a Pilsner base, but your beer, you do what you want. Vienna is used in some recipes, but my research usually has a much lower percentage than you plan.
2. Plan your honey. If you boil it, you will lose the characteristics you desire. If you heat it and add it at flameout, it will sink to the bottom of the kettle (I wonder how I know about the flameout part). If you add it later, you need to pasteurize it.
3. Many people like Citra hops. The only time I like them is when they are very muted. They are waaay to much in your face at higher quantities for me. I tasted a single hop Galaxy Pale Ale recently that I really like.
4. If using a Belgian yeast, make sure you have a blow off tube and give yourself some space in the fermenter. They are f ing active. If you want Belgian characteristics, you will probably need to ramp up the temps to the higher end of what the yeast likes per the instructions. The last Saison I made I let temps free rise into the low 80s after the krausen fell. I started in the low 70s.
5. 1/2 lb White Wheat or 1/2 lb Carapils will help with head retention.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Additional thought:
If you want a Maris Otter like characteristic and keep it Belgian ish. you could go with a Pilsner base and add 1/2lb of Biscuit. My two session/well, kind of session Belgians were Pils, 1/2 lb White Wheat, 1/2 lb Biscuit. That is it. The yeast did the rest.
The first recipe I stupidly did in January, and the lower fermenting temps resulted in something that tasted a cross between an English beer (I used Biscuit) and a Belgian beer. That is why I mentioned going higher on the temps.
There are a lot of videos on YouTube that helped me understand the design of a Belgian beer and why it is done simply. Again, your beer, do what you want, but watch some videos so you can see why things are done a certain way and learn from it so you can design something to your liking.

 

[miaamelia]

I figure it's time to try my own recipes rather than someone else's and you guys are so good at this, I was wondering if I could get come feedback on this recipe. I really value constructive input so thank you tremendously in advance.

Drumroll please............

El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA

Ingredients:

FERMENTABLES

• 5.5 lb Maris Otter malt
• 5.0 lb Vienna malt
• 1.0 lb CaraFoam malt
• 1.0 lb Melanoidin malt
• 0.5 lb Flaked White Wheat
• 0.25 lb Sprouted oats (rolled)

• 1lb Honey (In Florida we use Orange blossom)

HOPS

• 0.5 oz (14 g) Magnum hops, 12% a.a. (60 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (20 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (10 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Galaxy hops, 14% a.a. (5 min)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (hop stand)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Galaxy hops, 14% a.a. (hop stand)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) Citra hops, 12% a.a. (dry hop)
• 1.0 oz (28 g) El Dorado, 14% a.a. (dry hop)

YEAST

Abbaye Belgian Style Ale Yeast – Lallemand Dry

Calc Spec's:

Yield: 6 Gallons
Original Gravity: 1.5
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV: 6.7
IBU: 75
SRM: 7.1
Efficiency: 80%

Directions:

Mash flaked wheat and oats only at 122°F for 20 minutes in 5 gallons of water. Increase mash temperature to 158°, dough-in the remainder of the grain bill and add your first hop addition. Maintain mash temperature at 148° for 60 minutes. Mashout at 167°F for 10 minutes. Bring wort to a boil for 60 minutes. After the 60 minute boil turn off the heat, remove the previous hop additions and add the hop stand additions and steep for 20 minutes decorative concrete Salt Lake City. After the 20 minute steep, bring your remaining volume up to 6 gallons using 33° water and further chill your wort to 74°. Pitch your yeast. Ferment at 74°F. When primary fermentation is finished, add the dry hop additions for 5 days. Remove dry hops, allow 21 days maturation at 65°, cold crash for 4 days at 33°. Keg or bottle using your preferred method to achieve ~2.2 volumes of carbonation.

El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA looks like an intriguing and well-crafted recipe! It incorporates a balanced selection of malts and hops to create a flavorful and aromatic Belgian-style IPA. Here are some constructive feedback and considerations:

1. Malt Bill: The combination of Maris Otter, Vienna, CaraFoam, Melanoidin, Flaked White Wheat, and Sprouted oats creates a diverse malt profile that should contribute to the beer's body, mouthfeel, and maltiness.
   
   
2. Honey Addition: Using Orange blossom honey is an interesting addition that can add a unique sweetness and aroma to the beer. It should complement the hop flavors and contribute to the overall complexity.
   
   
3. Hop Selection: The combination of Magnum, Citra, Galaxy, and El Dorado hops promises a delightful blend of citrus, tropical fruit, and floral notes. This should work well in a Belgian IPA.
   
   
4. Yeast Choice: The Abbaye Belgian Style Ale Yeast is an excellent choice for this style. It should add the characteristic Belgian yeast flavors, including fruity esters and spicy phenolics, which will complement the hop and malt profile.
   
   
5. Mashing: The multi-step mashing process, including the protein rest and various temperature rests, should help achieve a desirable balance of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars, resulting in a well-attenuated beer with good body.
   
   
6. Hop Stand: The hop stand additions with Citra and Galaxy hops are a great technique for extracting additional hop aroma and flavor without excessive bitterness.
   
   
7. Fermentation: Fermenting at 74°F with the Abbaye yeast should bring out the desired Belgian yeast characteristics. Controlling fermentation temperature is crucial for achieving the desired flavor profile.
   
   
8. Dry Hopping: Dry hopping with Citra and El Dorado hops will elevate the beer's aroma and hop character, enhancing its overall complexity.
   
   
9. Maturation: Allowing the beer to mature for 21 days at 65°F will help smooth out any harsh flavors and allow the hop and yeast characteristics to meld together.
   
   
10. Cold Crash: Cold crashing at 33°F for 4 days should help clear the beer, resulting in a clean and crisp appearance.
    
    
11. Carbonation: Targeting ~2.2 volumes of carbonation should provide a pleasant level of effervescence, appropriate for the style.

Overall, the El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA recipe seems well-balanced and well-designed, with careful attention to both malt and hop profiles. The combination of the honey, hops, and Belgian yeast should create a unique and flavorful beer. Remember to take detailed notes throughout the brewing process to evaluate and adjust future batches if needed. Enjoy the brewing experience, and cheers to your creative and tasty Belgian IPA!

 

[Sandy Feet]

At least the Buggles loved Ms. Robot, but that was 1981 LOL.

 

[Megary]

For the most part, I like it.

But I'll agree with @Sandy Feet...mostly Pilsner Malt with some Vienna instead of ≈ 50/50 Maris Otter/Vienna would be my preferred base. I'm also not sure about all of that Melanoidin, but I've never gotten along with that Malt so that could just be my issue. Maybe a touch of Victory or Biscuit if you are trying to bring some extra depth??

I'm also interested in the sprouted oats addition. Definitely going to have to keep that in mind.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[Brewer #400075]

Just a few things/thoughts: I have tried a more sessionable Belgian with moderately decent results and a couple of Saisons that were quite tasty after they sat for a little bit.
1. Your Belgian beers are typically a Pilsner base, but your beer, you do what you want. Vienna is used in some recipes, but my research usually has a much lower percentage than you plan.
2. Plan your honey. If you boil it, you will lose the characteristics you desire. If you heat it and add it at flameout, it will sink to the bottom of the kettle (I wonder how I know about the flameout part). If you add it later, you need to pasteurize it.
3. Many people like Citra hops. The only time I like them is when they are very muted. They are waaay to much in your face at higher quantities for me. I tasted a single hop Galaxy Pale Ale recently that I really like.
4. If using a Belgian yeast, make sure you have a blow off tube and give yourself some space in the fermenter. They are f ing active. If you want Belgian characteristics, you will probably need to ramp up the temps to the higher end of what the yeast likes per the instructions. The last Saison I made I let temps free rise into the low 80s after the krausen fell. I started in the low 70s.
5. 1/2 lb White Wheat or 1/2 lb Carapils will help with head retention.

Thanks Sandy! I appreciate this!!

 

[Brewer #400075]

El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA looks like an intriguing and well-crafted recipe! It incorporates a balanced selection of malts and hops to create a flavorful and aromatic Belgian-style IPA. Here are some constructive feedback and considerations:

1. Malt Bill: The combination of Maris Otter, Vienna, CaraFoam, Melanoidin, Flaked White Wheat, and Sprouted oats creates a diverse malt profile that should contribute to the beer's body, mouthfeel, and maltiness.
   
   
2. Honey Addition: Using Orange blossom honey is an interesting addition that can add a unique sweetness and aroma to the beer. It should complement the hop flavors and contribute to the overall complexity.
   
   
3. Hop Selection: The combination of Magnum, Citra, Galaxy, and El Dorado hops promises a delightful blend of citrus, tropical fruit, and floral notes. This should work well in a Belgian IPA.
   
   
4. Yeast Choice: The Abbaye Belgian Style Ale Yeast is an excellent choice for this style. It should add the characteristic Belgian yeast flavors, including fruity esters and spicy phenolics, which will complement the hop and malt profile.
   
   
5. Mashing: The multi-step mashing process, including the protein rest and various temperature rests, should help achieve a desirable balance of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars, resulting in a well-attenuated beer with good body.
   
   
6. Hop Stand: The hop stand additions with Citra and Galaxy hops are a great technique for extracting additional hop aroma and flavor without excessive bitterness.
   
   
7. Fermentation: Fermenting at 74°F with the Abbaye yeast should bring out the desired Belgian yeast characteristics. Controlling fermentation temperature is crucial for achieving the desired flavor profile.
   
   
8. Dry Hopping: Dry hopping with Citra and El Dorado hops will elevate the beer's aroma and hop character, enhancing its overall complexity.
   
   
9. Maturation: Allowing the beer to mature for 21 days at 65°F will help smooth out any harsh flavors and allow the hop and yeast characteristics to meld together.
   
   
10. Cold Crash: Cold crashing at 33°F for 4 days should help clear the beer, resulting in a clean and crisp appearance.
    
    
11. Carbonation: Targeting ~2.2 volumes of carbonation should provide a pleasant level of effervescence, appropriate for the style.

Overall, the El Galcitra Blondish Belgian IPA recipe seems well-balanced and well-designed, with careful attention to both malt and hop profiles. The combination of the honey, hops, and Belgian yeast should create a unique and flavorful beer. Remember to take detailed notes throughout the brewing process to evaluate and adjust future batches if needed. Enjoy the brewing experience, and cheers to your creative and tasty Belgian IPA!

That you for a very well crafted reply !!!

 

[Brewer #400075]

For the most part, I like it.

But I'll agree with @Sandy Feet...mostly Pilsner Malt with some Vienna instead of ≈ 50/50 Maris Otter/Vienna would be my preferred base. I'm also not sure about all of that Melanoidin, but I've never gotten along with that Malt so that could just be my issue. Maybe a touch of Victory or Biscuit if you are trying to bring some extra depth??

I'm also interested in the sprouted oats addition. Definitely going to have to keep that in mind.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

To be honest, I was thinking I would get three things from the Melanoidin, color, as the primary base malts are very light, aroma, I do like the smell of it, and additional mouthfeel. I use it a lot in an Irish Red recipe I modified in place of Victory and felt it was a noticeable improvement and I believe it pairs well with Otter.

I considered using biscuit but felt it was a little on the light side color wise and the beer would come out very yellow rather than a appealing amber color. I'm looking for that deep yellow amber color with just a tiny hint of red without it looking brown.

I also like CaraRed but I think it also would have been a bit light on color.

I have a sack of Weyermann Pilsner malt I got on sale sitting here as well as a sack of each of the Crisp Otter and Weyermann Vienna... I wonder how it would turn out doing it in thirds using all three???? The use of Vienna was more of a.. I wonder how this would taste in a beer that I am trying to make malty and smooth with bold pronounced tropical/citrus flavors with a great residual hoppy bitterness aftertaste. Wanting to achieve that "This is what it's going to taste like" aroma up-front, the sweet maltiness is what you taste first with that creamy head, followed by the pronounced citrus/tropical flavors from the hops followed by the hop bitterness that makes you want to take another drink.

I built the recipe for 6 gallons but I typically brew 16 Gallons in the fermenter to fill 3, 5 gallon Corny kegs, I have a 12 CF freezer with a separate temp controller that holds 8 Corny's and the third makes it into the kegorator that holds 4. It's just as much work to brew 16 gallons as it is 6 so I make it count. It also forces me to buy sacks of grain rather than 5-10 pounds at a time and buy hops by the pound... Makes a difference in cost for sure. Plus, by the time I get to that last keg of a batch, it's been sitting in that freezer at 35° for maybe 3-4 months and it really shows how good beer can get with some time behind it. I make wine also from 2 acres of grapes/blueberries I have planted and wine teaches you to be very patient if you want something really really good.

 

[Sandy Feet]

To be honest, I was thinking I would get three things from the Melanoidin, color, as the primary base malts are very light, aroma, I do like the smell of it, and additional mouthfeel. I use it a lot in an Irish Red recipe I modified in place of Victory and felt it was a noticeable improvement and I believe it pairs well with Otter.

I considered using biscuit but felt it was a little on the light side color wise and the beer would come out very yellow rather than a appealing amber color. I'm looking for that deep yellow amber color with just a tiny hint of red without it looking brown.

I also like CaraRed but I think it also would have been a bit light on color.

I have a sack of Weyermann Pilsner malt I got on sale sitting here as well as a sack of each of the Crisp Otter and Weyermann Vienna... I wonder how it would turn out doing it in thirds using all three???? The use of Vienna was more of a.. I wonder how this would taste in a beer that I am trying to make malty and smooth with bold pronounced tropical/citrus flavors with a great residual hoppy bitterness aftertaste. Wanting to achieve that "This is what it's going to taste like" aroma up-front, the sweet maltiness is what you taste first with that creamy head, followed by the pronounced citrus/tropical flavors from the hops followed by the hop bitterness that makes you want to take another drink.

I built the recipe for 6 gallons but I typically brew 16 Gallons in the fermenter to fill 3, 5 gallon Corny kegs, I have a 12 CF freezer with a separate temp controller that holds 8 Corny's and the third makes it into the kegorator that holds 4. It's just as much work to brew 16 gallons as it is 6 so I make it count. It also forces me to buy sacks of grain rather than 5-10 pounds at a time and buy hops by the pound... Makes a difference in cost for sure. Plus, by the time I get to that last keg of a batch, it's been sitting in that freezer at 35° for maybe 3-4 months and it really shows how good beer can get with some time behind it. I make wine also from 2 acres of grapes/blueberries I have planted and wine teaches you to be very patient if you want something really really good.

A small amount of Carapils won"t add much to taste, but it will go a little more toward an amber color, give mouthfeel, and add head retention.
For making something light and hoppy and Belgian or French, you might look at a Saison yeast. There is a brewery/ restaurant up the road from me in Winter Park that makes an exceptional Saison and it is a bit on the hoppy side, not an IPA, but not not far from a Pale Ale hoppiness

 

[Brewer #400075]

A small amount of Carapils won"t add much to taste, but it will go a little more toward an amber color, give mouthfeel, and add head retention.
For making something light and hoppy and Belgian or French, you might look at a Saison yeast. There is a brewery/ restaurant up the road from me in Winter Park that makes an exceptional Saison and it is a bit on the hoppy side, not an IPA, but not not far from a Pale Ale hoppiness

I'm planning to make a 16 gallon batch, would be easy to split it up and try a couple different yeasts to see the difference.

 

[Donoroto]

I figure it's time to try my own recipes rather than someone else's and you guys are so good at this...

Ha! Have we got you fooled!

Ok, seriously: The melanoidin and otter will give this beer a unique and memorable flavor. That's not a bad thing, either. I'm having a hard time imagining what all those hops will taste like, so I say: please brew it and tell us how it comes out.

 

[Brewer #400075]

Ha! Have we got you fooled!

Ok, seriously: The melanoidin and otter will give this beer a unique and memorable flavor. That's not a bad thing, either. I'm having a hard time imagining what all those hops will taste like, so I say: please brew it and tell us how it comes out.

I will, I agree, the hops profile is aggressive, may cut it down by 25% except the Magnum. Some of the hops I just received for this brew have an AA a tad higher than whats listed so the Galaxy may get cut by 30.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Guess we were posting at the same time. Got to watch the alphas in those things. 12 & 14 aa go a looooong way. I went back to look at my Belgian recipes. I used Saaz in all of them. I used a little Hallertau in the first one. I used some Fuggle in the second. I used a Saaz/EKG combination in the Saisons. All of them are low alpha hops (my preference). It is a cool idea but remember that most of what makes those Belgian styles is the yeast characteristics. Hops are great, but you don't want so many as to bury the flavors produced by the yeast.