Whirlpooling and no krausen?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by TenOaksBrewing, May 20, 2018.

  1. TenOaksBrewing

    TenOaksBrewing New Member

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    Hello All,

    Looking for a bit of discussion / help. I’ve been brewing for while and every wort has had a nice high krausen expect for my last two.
    Only thing different is I started to use a pump and whirlpool my cooled wort for 15 mins (and settle for 20) before pumping to fermenter.

    First (of last two) was an oatmeal stout, using white labs Bristish Ale yeast. Beer hit my numbers, no issue with fermentation, clearest beer to date, and tastes awesome. Just no krausen. I thought maybe just the oatmeal or yeast?

    Last beer is a lemon drop saison using Whitelab saison II 566, which I haven’t used but have used 565 with great effect and krausen. But again, whirlpooled and no krausen but fermentation is going great.l, tons of airlock activity and lots of movement.

    Any thoughts on a correlation between whirlpooling and krausen?
     
  2. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    could just be a really healthy fermentation... whirlpooling could have introduced a good amount of oxygen for the yeast.
    I've had 1 beer ferment with no visible activity, and it dropped 75% attenuation just like i wanted. used WLP095 for that one. Oxygen and healthy fermentation is my only guess
     
  3. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    If you’re hitting your numbers, and you like the way your beer tastes, don’t worry about it. Krausen isn’t part of the finished product.
     
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  4. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe less protein left in the beer due to whirlpooling means less gunk to float up with the krausen? Although I've never heard of anything like this. Only time I didn't get krausen was using muntons yeast and it fermented fine.
     
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  5. TenOaksBrewing

    TenOaksBrewing New Member

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    I use straight Oxygen with a stone for 60 seconds after the whirlpooling so I would guess it is very well oxygenated.

    But I have been doing using O2 for a while and still had krausen. Maybe whirlpooling just introduces more then I was used to?

    Will need to check on the krausen / O2 coorelation.
     
  6. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I had one batch not krausen at all on me a while back. Freaked me out but didn't seem to cause any detrimental impact.

    Let her buck, she'll be right. If it does it every time you might have something strange going on. Or it might be something in your process as you mention.
     
  7. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Well going by that bruloaophy exbeeriment on the trub/no trub fermentation was.more vigorous on the truby fermention than in the less truby so maybe this could correate with what your seeing?
     
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  8. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Whirlpool and krausen have nothing to do with the other .

    Has process changed ? Any change to your water or how you clean / sanitise ferment vessel ?
    Even with antifoam agents like fermcap I've still had a small scummy ring in FV but results speak for themselves
     
  9. TenOaksBrewing

    TenOaksBrewing New Member

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    No, absolutely no change to water, equipment, or cleaning. Some as always. But at the end of the day, wort still ferments well so I guess it doesn’t matter So much. I am just really curious why the sudden change and the pump/whirlpooling is the only difference or change.

    trialben, thanks. That might start to explain the issue. I will look up the experiment. Very interesting post thanks.
     
  10. vthokiedsp

    vthokiedsp Member

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    stumbled on this. a little late. do you use fermcapS to reduce the likelihood of boil overs? when i started using fermcapS and performed a whirlpool, i noticed a significant decrease in krausen development. at the time, i just assumed it de-foamed the krausen as well.
     
  11. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I use it for my 10 gallon batches, I never thought of that, I suppose it's possible.
     
  12. Lil guy

    Lil guy Member

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    #12 Lil guy, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Whirlpooling for a time with a very small breach on the suction side of the pump could allow a steady flow of air into the finished wort. I am not sure of your connection types or your setup, but it could be at rest with the pump off that the head pressure wouldn't be enough to cause a leak, but the draft of the pump being on could be a stream of introduced air into the wort essentially oxygenating the wort as you whirlpool. It is possible for a leak to be not enough to cavitate the pump, but enough to deliver you a great benefit. Cheers. Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.
     
  13. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I was thinking about that very thing on my last brew after adding a new whirlpool arm and I saw the whirlpool splash at one point as it hits the wall and I was thinking that could be oxigen and I probably shouldn't I give it any more, the fermentation was too strong as it was, you may be onto something
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Ah, whirlpooling.... After seeing the actual trub cone in a four barrel kettle nearly six feet across, I no longer try. It was maybe three inches higher at the center than at the edges. In my eleven gallon kettle, that would be a couple of millimeters higher in the center. I'm happy to be wrong about this but on the small scale of our kettles, I've never seen a benefit from whirlpooling and the downside is introducing air into very hot wort.
     
  15. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    well I don't use whirlpooling just for trub but it does help the way I have it set up, the main goal is for hop flavor without dry hopping but the added benefit is to keep hops out of the fermenter like this
    WP_20180507_19_44_29_Pro.jpg
     
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  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Looks like it works for you. I've never been able to get the gunk to pile up like this.
     
  17. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    that's because I added a screen catcher :D, that's 2" tall so it's full
     
  18. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Current kettle has no pickup, screen or filter , I manage a decent trub cone though.
    Could it be a kettle geometry difference ?
    When using a friends system with a huge IC I couldn't get a decent cone but with the CFC I get it everytime
     
  19. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I have mine set to recirculate and the pipe end is smaller than the inlet that way it creates a faster flow, I also go counterclockwise and that makes a difference since it's not fighting the earth's rotation
     
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  20. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why SS brewtech brewmaster kettles have clockwise rotation, I had thought it was a mirrored model for us antipodeans but seems not.
     
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