What's a more valid test?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by jmcnamara, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    Another thread here got me planning out some brews for next year, and one of them is to do a fairly extreme example of what different hopping schedules do. So, X amount at FWH, 60, 45, 30, 15, or 0 only. Keep the grain bill pretty simple and a clean (maybe hop forward) yeast.

    My question is, would it be better to bitter to the same IBUs across all the batches or to use the same amount of hops across the batches?

    I'm leaning towards bitter to the same IBUs, since I think that will let me see what type of "bitter" each different addition brings to the beer.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Interesting , what are you trying to learn ?
    If its just how different bitterness presents id be leaning towards leaving all additions later than 20 mins identical so flavour and aroma should remain the same .
    Batch A gets FWH for 50%+ of total ibus
    Batch B gets a larger charge at 45-30 mins to the same ibu .

    I'm a fan of FWH and find it gives a smoother more mellow bitterness but will also depend on what variety you bitter with
     
  3. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    a while back some friends got a case of a Sam Adams beer that used 5 different hops. they had 2 bottles with the full beer, and then 2 bottles each of just the single hop. I assumed they kept the hop schedule the same, but just removed the other hops.
    I'm thinking something along the lines of that. Like, this is what 30 IBU is like from a 60 minute addition. This is what it's like as a 20 minute addition.

    I'm not even going to think about how the end result might be different based on the specific hop, grain bill, and yeast. I'm just trying to get some firsthand general experience
     
  4. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    i should be clearer, i'd like each batch to get just the one addition. but whether to measure the amount in grams or in IBUs?
     
  5. Beer_Pirate

    Beer_Pirate Active Member

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    I vote for IBU as well. Keeping hop type the same, I'll be interested to hear your impressions on how the bitterness/flavor change (especially towards the end of the boil). I've been wondering if the difference between 20 min and 5 min is noticeable in terms of aroma and flavor at the same level of IBU. Just haven't gotten around to brewing two batches of the same thing back to back to try it out. Guess I need to convince SWAMBO that I need more kegs... :D
     
  6. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    i hear ya. with the new baby and the holidays, im finding it harder to brew. im hoping a few xmas / birthday gifts will help me to brew more spur of the moment and crank out some smaller batches
     
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  7. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    You'll be using a fair chunk of hops to bitter at 5 mins but know you'll get more aroma from that Bittering addition than from 60min. you need less hops the more you boil so this will affect aroma/flavour what hops you gunna use?
     
  8. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    not all beers need the same bitterness ibu level, but each person likes a minimum and maximum level, personally I prefer most beers above 40 ibu but you wouldn't need that much for a thin lager so I lower it down to the 30's, so the question is what beers are you referring too
     
  9. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I'd probably do a simple pale/Vienna grist, no specialty malts.

    As for what hop, whatever I can get cheap? Probably Amarillo or citra or similar. It's not really about the particular hop, more of the schedule.

    But if anyone has any ideas on either, by all means share
     
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  10. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I honestly may just use DME. It's simpler and as Nosybear says, it cuts out some of the variables from batch to batch
     
  11. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    Ive got a couple of beers using dme and just one hop addition and a 30 minute boil, fast and good beer so Ive use cluster hop, its a middle of the road ibu and has a nice flavor, you just add the hops and dme in cold water bring it to a boil for 30 minutes then chill, thats it, cascade will work too
     
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  12. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I would go with a 30 ibu on that, brewing that way seems to need more ibu's
     
  13. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    #13 ACBEV, Dec 14, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    I've got an idea... May not be a good one!

    Lets say your boiling for 90 minutes and have four hop additions, at 90, 45, 30 and 15 mins

    Add hop 1 @ 90 mins
    Syphon off 5L @ 45 mins (Batch A)
    Add hop 2 @ 45 mins
    Syphon off 5L @ 30 mins (Batch B)
    Add hop 3 @ 30 mins
    Syphon off 5L @ 15 mins (Batch C)
    Add hop 4 @ 15 mins
    At Zero minutes your left with Batch D

    I think the advantage is that your working with the same wort, which gives you consistency.

    Edit: forgot to add... You would need to account for diminishing wort volume when adding hops 2, 3 and 4.
     
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  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Definitely IBUs, if you're trying to see the difference between, say, hop additions at 60 mins and 10 mins (that's an example for discussion purposes only). And I'd use extract for consistency in the wort. This regime measures subjective effect (read flavor) based on time but you're varying two things no matter how you go, the time and the mass of hops you add. But I like the general design of the test and may do it myself! One reason there's so little definite science around brewing is it's very hard to isolate one variable.
     
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  15. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I figured you'd say that!

    And acbev, i like the idea of consistency in wort, but that seems like a lot of math for my feeble mind to do
     
  16. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    Lol.... Not really! I assume your thinking calc of hops.

    Its easy....
    1st addition is 100% of hops per your recipe.
    2nd addition would be 75% of hops per your recipe
    3rd addition would be 50% of hops per your recipe
    4th addition would be 25% of hops per your recipe

    This would take into account your diminishing boiling wort volume, assuming you split into 4 equal parts.
     
  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt hop isomerization deminish as well as the wort thickens and sugars increase with boil off later on in the boil? You may need to take that into consideration.

    Im imagining that final 90 min bittered beer will be a bitter bastard:p.

    Id go a hop with middle of the roadd AAs like cascade around 7 ish ?
     
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  18. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    :rolleyes: I was trying to keep it simple and I didn't think what you did! However, as its 90 minutes to give hops enough time in the kettle (schedule) . Perhaps reducing the first hop addition bu a bit. OK a bit of a fudge, but does the job!

    If I had a pencil and several months, even I might be able to work out all the variables... o_O
     
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  19. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    the best way to brew a cheap and easy beer is to use the cheapest bittering hop which is magnum and adjust your ibu's to your liking then use what ever flavoring hop at 10 minutes to 0 or whirlpool, it works with any type, so magnum is about $7 a pound and you only need about 1/2 ounce to bitter
     
  20. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    This would be the way to go but to go against the grain my thought would be equal amounts of hops at different times. The ibu would change considerably but the results would be imo something more useable. You would have a pile of hops to get your ibu`s up at flame out the other way. Not something you would normally do. This would give you a flavor and aroma comparison not just bittering.
     

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