Water Profile for British Brown Ale

west1m said:
Or, brew a beer with RO and add the salts to the glass afterwards. This could be a glorious exercise, drinking beer after beer with various levels of salts to see just when we can "perceive" the dryness imparted by our gypsum additions! I would likely fall over first, but all in the name of progress.

Ok, would a taste test like this actually work or do the additives need to be in the mash and boil?
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A test like this would definitely work. Add table salt to a beer and see what happens. It's a great experiment.

Why do we add salts to the mash or the boil? For convenience or do they actually "affect the beer". If your pH is in line - and that can be achieved much easier with your favorite acid and not various additions of salts - what else does the mash really need? I understand a bit of Calcium is good for yeast health, but typical malt provides that.

Now I'm not suggesting mashing with distilled water, but for practical purposes, wouldn't we get a better idea of what the salts are doing to our beer if we just added them to the glass? Again, if we make a beer with "Insert Water Profile Here", how do we know that we wouldn't have preferred it with twice the SO4 or half the Na? We take these water profiles on faith. A good food recipe almost always ends with "salt and pepper to taste".

Now...once we know what we like, then sure, add the salts to the mash because it really is convenient.
 
west1m said:
Or, brew a beer with RO and add the salts to the glass afterwards. This could be a glorious exercise, drinking beer after beer with various levels of salts to see just when we can "perceive" the dryness imparted by our gypsum additions! I would likely fall over first, but all in the name of progress.

Ok, would a taste test like this actually work or do the additives need to be in the mash and boil?
Click to expand...
Good question, here are my thoughts.
I suspect that a good analogy of this might be to put this into a cooking perspective.
Would there be a difference in how spaghetti sauce would taste if you added all of the seasonings to your portion on your plate, as opposed to adding them while cooking. I think the answer is yes, and I think the answer would be the same with brewing beer with or without ions, and adding them to your glass. Not to mention that adding the correct amount of each "salt" to a single glass of beer would also be very difficult.
 
Or I could be completely wrong above...
I wonder though if the ratio of chloride to sulfate in fact enhances malt, or hop flavors, will it do this in the glass?
Or is the effect on malts occurring during the mash, and the effect on hops occurring in the kettle and or fermenter?
I actually have no idea...
 
Craigerrr said:
Good question, here are my thoughts.
I suspect that a good analogy of this might be to put this into a cooking perspective.
Would there be a difference in how spaghetti sauce would taste if you added all of the seasonings to your portion on your plate, as opposed to adding them while cooking. I think the answer is yes, and I think the answer would be the same with brewing beer with or without ions, and adding them to your glass. Not to mention that adding the correct amount of each "salt" to a single glass of beer would also be very difficult.
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It would be somewhat difficult, sure. But...
My point is just this: without trying an "in the glass" experiment, when the salts are added together in the mash, we have only a limited idea as to what these salts are bringing to the finished beer.
Can anyone tell the difference between a beer with 80-SO4:40-Cl vs. one with 40-SO4:80Cl vs. one with 100:100? And which one is preferential? We certainly don't all perceive these ions like robots, each one of us detecting them at the exact same ppm.
 
Megary said:
It would be somewhat difficult, sure. But...
My point is just this: without trying an "in the glass" experiment, when the salts are added together in the mash, we have only a limited idea as to what these salts are bringing to the finished beer.
Can anyone tell the difference between a beer with 80-SO4:40-Cl vs. one with 40-SO4:80Cl vs. one with 100:100? And which one is preferential? We certainly don't all perceive these ions like robots, each one of us detecting them at the exact same ppm.
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Indeed, very subjective for sure. You raise very good points sir.
My only real experience is following the guidelines I have learned over time, and being happy with the results.
Such a cool hobby!
 
west1m said:
Or, brew a beer with RO and add the salts to the glass afterwards. This could be a glorious exercise, drinking beer after beer with various levels of salts to see just when we can "perceive" the dryness imparted by our gypsum additions! I would likely fall over first, but all in the name of progress.

Ok, would a taste test like this actually work or do the additives need to be in the mash and boil?
Click to expand...
Not a good idea: The wort should have around 50 ppm Calcium to help with mash pH and clarification. Better: Brew with a balanced, neutral profile, then add your salts to taste.
 
I keep missing the second page comments and end up increasing the comments redundancy...
 
I'm generally one who equates water profiles to magic or voodoo, but with that disclaimer out of the way, the UK brewing supply house called 'Murphy & Son', which supplies both commercial and home brewers, offers its customers these guidelines. Note: I did some fast alignment of the styles to their proper columns, as they are out of wack on the original image...
 

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Great conversation!
My assumption would be that dosing in the glass would simply be to put you in the same ballpark (or pitch) that dosing the mash water would give you. If you kind of like the new flavors it adds then try it in a full batch. Otherwise abandon that idea.
 
BarbarianBrewer said:
Great conversation!
My assumption would be that dosing in the glass would simply be to put you in the same ballpark (or pitch) that dosing the mash water would give you. If you kind of like the new flavors it adds then try it in a full batch. Otherwise abandon that idea.
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Yeah.
And I think an "in the glass" experiment would help to determine at what levels we can even detect these additions.

So if I want my Porter to have a fuller mouthfeel, maybe accentuate the sweetness, will I notice this at 75ppm Cl, or 125, 175, 250....

The only problem with the "in the glass" method, as I see it, is the accuracy of measurements...and the math. :oops:
 
Megary said:
The only problem with the "in the glass" method, as I see it, is the accuracy of measurements...and the math. :oops:
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Dissolve a relatively large amount (say, 1 gram) of a salt in a known amount of beer (100 ml?). You then have a solution you can add to your drink. Add 1 ml, get 0.01 grams of salts.

Reasonably precise and accurate, yet easily done by most people.
 
I use standard 10% w/w solutions (10% salt, 90% distilled water) where possible. Both gypsum and baking soda won't dissolve at 10%.
 
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