Vorlauf and dark malt

An extra point about contest beers: packaging seems to be a dark art. I helped a fellow brewer QuickCarb a beer for a contest. I'd have given it a solid 42+ on tap but it barely scraped a 36 out of the bottle. (though it did garner 1st in that category) As I noted above, I personally find most contest entries I judge to be under-carbonated. (I didn't actually judge that one, if you're curious) This can seriously impact aroma and mouthfeel. The few exceptions appear to be bottle-conditioned. I got out of that habit when I switched to kegs and got a QuickCarb and a BeerGun, but I'll have to rethink that if I enter another brew.

And yes, luck has a big role to play in getting a medal. Who judges the beer and the rest of the competition in a flight are big factors. Entering the same beer in multiple contests at the same time can often give you better insight, and maybe a better chance at a medal.
 
damn dude im impressed.
Thanks. I guess jumped right in the deep end there. Hope I didn't scare anyone off. I made that dive about 6 years ago when I was brewing every 3–4 weeks or better, and then assisting with friends' brews in between. That really helped me refine my process and learn my equipment
One of the best judges that i have ever had the pleasure of knowing was a full blown chain smoker who could have a cig in one hand a sample in another and NAIL every blind sensory test, even at very low %s
That's just nuts. Someone should do some science on smokers and palate training! (like, does it work for cigars and pipes too?)
 
Thanks. I guess jumped right in the deep end there. Hope I didn't scare anyone off. I made that dive about 6 years ago when I was brewing every 3–4 weeks or better, and then assisting with friends' brews in between. That really helped me refine my process and learn my equipment

That's just nuts. Someone should do some science on smokers and palate training! (like, does it work for cigars and pipes too?)
lol naw generally speaking smoking anything damages your overall palate. I assume if she didnt smoke she would be able to taste colors and sounds??!?!
 
let the bag fully drain, then SQUEEZE!—no tannins are created from squeezing, that is a myth. No need to leave wort behind in the grain if you can get it out. I've found the best squeezing method is to use an A-frame ladder to suspend my bag pulley with a large carabiner, and then slide my mash paddle or a pipe through the carabiner so it gets caught on both sides of the ladder, and then twist the bag until I can't any more. I can easily recover ½ gallon of wort that would otherwise be lost that way.

I’ve wondered about the squeezing the grain bag assertion. Generally I handle this as follows.
Once vourlauf is done, I stop the recirculation ( complete the sparge to get my volume ) then
1) raise the kettle temp to about 190-195-ish while i
2) pull the grain basket and set it to drain into a clean/sanitized former fermenter - aka, a 5 gallon bucket.
3) make sure my hops are ready, and i’m good to boil, etc.
4) once i have all I need ready for the boil and following tasks I set the kettle to boil and watch. Contrary to popular belief, a watched beer kettle does boil.
5) before I get to the boil, I get the malt pipe drainings and add to the boil kettle, and assess my volume. I usually get about .25 gallons-ish.
I adjust my boil time before the hop schedule accordingly.

awesome and insightful post, thanks for sharing.
 
My friends who have baskets/pipes use smaller kitchen pot lids like a pressure plate to squeeze the wort out of the grains.

Otherwise, we use pretty much the same process as you.

And yes, a watched kettle does reach a boil, but it reaches it even faster if you step away to crack a homebrew! (I never drink before the boil, my beers turn out better that way!)
 
And yes, a watched kettle does reach a boil, but it reaches it even faster if you step away to crack a homebrew! (I never drink before the boil, my beers turn out better that way!)

I too have noticed this phenomenon.
 
To start, an excellent resource about mashing and brewing in general is https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com. There's lots of detail and home-grown science there which can be overwhelming to the newbie, but if you like deep-dives and really want to up your game, I highly recommend spending some time with his wiki. The topics don't just apply to German styles either, but really any brew. You can skim it to start at first, and then revisit as you advance for better understanding.

It was there I learned to 'mash to full conversion' rather than by time. And while stable readings are one indicator, especially if they are your target pre-boil, a better method is to use an Iodine test as confirmation conversion is complete. (Recipe builders are estimators. Since malt is a crop, each batch will vary, so your pre-boil will as well.)

I and my brewing buddies pretty much always add dark malts (over 200°L) at Vorlauf. We've also tried doing an overnight cold-steep of dark grains, (suggested by Palmer in "How to Brew") but that doesn't seem to make a difference compared to 'capping' as it is called, and is just extra work and something else you have to think about and do in advance.

Astringency can come from *any* color barley, though dark malts are more susceptible to it. (or at least are more likely to be noticeable) Huskless malts (Wheat, Rye, Oats, Rice, Corn, etc.) either don't have the tannins to produce astringency at all, or else they are so low as to not be an issue. As for palates and judges, I think some people are simply better trained to detect it. Once you experience and know what it is, you start to notice it more and more. The way I learned is if you get a dry-cheek sensation like you just sucked on a piece of wood in the aftertaste of the beer, or even a mild 'cotton mouth' sensation—it is astringent. That is more common than you might suspect.

Astringency is caused by two factors: 1) High mash temps (above 168℉) and 2) High pH. (above 5.7 or so) This is more common with sparging processes because some folks aren't careful or don't have good means or meters to make sure their sparge water has a low enough pH. BIAB type systems avoid this problem as long as your main mash pH is in the proper range. That just leaves temp as a danger zone, so be mindful to keep your Vorlauf as close to 168℉ as possible until you pull the grains.

Vorlauf significantly decreases the viscosity of the mash, helps to properly set the grain bed by creating a layer of fine particulate over the grains, (there's a German name for this stuff, but I can't recall it off-hand) and rinses more sugars out of the grain bed rather than leaving them behind. I started raising my bag just prior to the mash-out temp ramp and then rinse the grains with my pump for 10 minutes as a Vorlauf step. This consistently buys me 3–5 gravity points versus pulling the bag and not rinsing through. (even with recirculation in that step) It's like a continuous sparge, but using the wort, not additional water where pH can be an issue. My process is to mash to full conversion confirmed by an Iodine test, *then* raise the bag and Vorlauf. Then I check gravity for 'pre-boil' and I'm usually within a point or two of target. (see above about estimation) UPDATE: from braukaiser.com, I forgot that Vorlauf also can contribute to full gelatinization of some starches that may not occur in the Saccharification ranges. This aids efficiency. (conversion) Which is why you'll see a mash stall out in gravity rise below 160°F, and then pick up more points as you proceed to mash-out temps.

No matter how you logistically handle the step, try to keep about an inch of wort on top of the bed by adjusting your pump flow to prevent channeling or cracking of the grain bed. After 10 minutes, stop the recirculation and let the bag fully drain, then SQUEEZE!—no tannins are created from squeezing, that is a myth. No need to leave wort behind in the grain if you can get it out. I've found the best squeezing method is to use an A-frame ladder to suspend my bag pulley with a large carabiner, and then slide my mash paddle or a pipe through the carabiner so it gets caught on both sides of the ladder, and then twist the bag until I can't any more. I can easily recover ½ gallon of wort that would otherwise be lost that way.

A special note for capped mashes: holding back dark grains will affect the pH of the mash, that is, it will be higher than if they were included from the start. Thus, be sure to set them as 'late additions' so the BF Water Calc doesn't factor in their pH contribution. This will mean you might need to make pH adjustments with acid to hit the right mash pH. (I use 85% Phosphoric to avoid lactic flavors) Yes, it will drop more when those dark grains are finally added, but I've yet to see that get too low, and I've brewed lots of dark styles. Even the blackest of Stouts and IPAs are fine. (+1 for Midnight Wheat too!)

Finally, about judges, ours here are notorious for wanting more hops, both flavor and aroma. Personally, I find low carbonation to be the biggest issue for bottled homebrew. (which of course, affects hop perceptions) I also find some of them need to re-read the beginning of the guidelines where it stresses that they aren't supposed to be hard-nosed bright-lines, but *literally* guidelines for how a style should look, smell, and taste. Entirely too many BJCP judges are extremely nit-picky and harsh. That makes entering contests quite frustrating. Their 'advice' of simply 'more' and other unquantified generic terms for anything I find to be non-helpful. Maybe the BJCP could send out friendly refresher notes to judges on some of these points.
Damn dude, I'm impressed too!
Lots of great info here, thank you!
 
My friends who have baskets/pipes use smaller kitchen pot lids like a pressure plate to squeeze the wort out of the grains.

Otherwise, we use pretty much the same process as you.

And yes, a watched kettle does reach a boil, but it reaches it even faster if you step away to crack a homebrew! (I never drink before the boil, my beers turn out better that way!)
I have a malt pipe (Brewzilla), when I take it out of the kettle I rest it in a bucket on an angle to continue draining, might just find or make a pot lid type deal to press the sweet liquid out.
 
I steep my black and chocolate malts at 140 F and add to the boil (refrigerate overnight and decant). This seems to take care of the bitter tastes.
 
I have a malt pipe (Brewzilla), when I take it out of the kettle I rest it in a bucket on an angle to continue draining, might just find or make a pot lid type deal to press the sweet liquid out.
I cut a bucket lid so the malt pipe rests nicely in the bucket.

image.jpg
 
I have a malt pipe (Brewzilla), when I take it out of the kettle I rest it in a bucket on an angle to continue draining, might just find or make a pot lid type deal to press the sweet liquid out.

My Brewzilla came with a mash cover which is really useless as I mash thin and it sinks. However….It would make a good press I think! I’ll try it with my brew day tomorrow and see if that pushes out some extra wort.
 
My Brewzilla came with a mash cover which is really useless as I mash thin and it sinks. However….It would make a good press I think! I’ll try it with my brew day tomorrow and see if that pushes out some extra wort.
I forgot about my top plate, I can dig that out of storage and use it for that purpose.

I remember you struggling with your Brewzilla at first, how has it been working for you?
 
I forgot about my top plate, I can dig that out of storage and use it for that purpose.

I remember you struggling with your Brewzilla at first, how has it been working for you?

Meh. It’s ok. Easier on these old bones than my old 1/2 barrel HERMS for sure. But definitely not big enough for full volume mashes, yet the larger one would have been too big. I’m not thrilled with how fast (slow) it raises temperature from 152 to 168, but I can live with it. I wish the malt pipe had those second feet to raise it partially and then lift it fully as it’s pretty heavy for my 125 lb body. And of course I brew a lot of IPAs, so the grain bed is heavy with those 15 pounds of grain and a few gallons of liquid to try to lift out of there nearly past my neck.

I may do something different tomorrow. Have sparge water in my old MLT, and then drain the mash wort to a keg and do a batch sparge with the sparge water. Remove the malt pipe, and then pump the wort with co2 back to the Brewzilla. That adds two more vessels (three if you count a co2 tank) to my ‘all in one’ so I’m on the fence about it.
 
Meh. It’s ok. Easier on these old bones than my old 1/2 barrel HERMS for sure. But definitely not big enough for full volume mashes, yet the larger one would have been too big. I’m not thrilled with how fast (slow) it raises temperature from 152 to 168, but I can live with it. I wish the malt pipe had those second feet to raise it partially and then lift it fully as it’s pretty heavy for my 125 lb body. And of course I brew a lot of IPAs, so the grain bed is heavy with those 15 pounds of grain and a few gallons of liquid to try to lift out of there nearly past my neck.

I may do something different tomorrow. Have sparge water in my old MLT, and then drain the mash wort to a keg and do a batch sparge with the sparge water. Remove the malt pipe, and then pump the wort with co2 back to the Brewzilla. That adds two more vessels (three if you count a co2 tank) to my ‘all in one’ so I’m on the fence about it.
I switched back to my herms, a bit harder to clean but faster for sure, I added 6000 watt elements
 
I switched back to my herms, a bit harder to clean but faster for sure, I added 6000 watt elements

I just think I need to maybe lower my expectations of the capabilities of the Brewzilla. I mean, it does heat, boil, pump, chill, etc. Just not the way my former custom system did. It makes beer, no worse than my old system so there is that.
 
So I used a bucket lid that I had handy to press/squeeze the grain bed today. I didn't really feel that there was a benefit. I moved it to drain into a bucket after that, and still added those additional runnings to the kettle as per usual. Think I will just continue doing what I am doing and skip the press/squeeze step.
20250427_104849.jpg
 
I just think I need to maybe lower my expectations of the capabilities of the Brewzilla. I mean, it does heat, boil, pump, chill, etc. Just not the way my former custom system did. It makes beer, no worse than my old system so there is that.
You lose some speed and flexibility in return for much less complexity.
 
I may do something different tomorrow. Have sparge water in my old MLT, and then drain the mash wort to a keg and do a batch sparge with the sparge water. Remove the malt pipe, and then pump the wort with co2 back to the Brewzilla.
Why would you drain the wort to a keg, then pushing it back i to the kettle?
 

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