Using bottled Still Mineral Water

If you assume the pH of water to be 7, and the average pH of beer to be 4.25, then:

10^-4.25/10^-7 ~= 562

So beer would be 562 times more acidic.

But (due to CO2) the typical pH of RO of distilled water is closer to 5.8 or 5.9.

10^-4.25/10^-5.9 ~= 45

Beer is only about 45 times more acidic than RO or distilled water.

If however your water is pH 8, then:

10^-4.25/10^-8 ~= 5,623

For this case beer is 5,623 times more acidic.

This knowledge plus about $3.50 will get you a nice coffee at Starbucks.
 
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An example of how to reduce Alkalinity (as CaCO3) such as to achieve a water pH of 5.4:

1st one must know how much Alkalinity (as CaCO3) ones water has. For roughly $30 Ward Labs will analyze your water for all of the ions pertinent to beer brewing.

Givens:
MW (molecular weight) of CaCO3 = 100.0869 g/mole = 100.0869 mg/mmole
For the Ca cation within CaCO3 the valence = +2
Therefore: Eq Wt (equivalent weight) of CaCO3 = MW/cation_valence = 100.0869/2 = 50.04345 g/Eq = 50.04345 mg/mEq

Hypothetical assumptions to be used for this example:
Lets assume that Ward Labs says your water has 158.9 mg/L (ppm) of Alkalinity (as CaCO3)
Lets assume that you will need 32.5 Liters of this water whereby to brew your current recipe.
Lets assume that you have chosen 88% Lactic Acid as your Alkalinity removing acid.

To hit a pH of 5.4 requires that ~90% of extant Alkalinity (as CaCO3) be eliminated.

0.90 x 158.9 mg/L Alkalinity = 143 mg/L of Alkalinity to be removed whereby to hit a water pH of 5.4

143 mg/L Alkalinity / 50.04345 mg/mEq Alkalinity = 2.8575 mEq/L of alkalinity (as CaCO3) to be removed

2.8575 mEq/L x 32.5 L = 92.869 mEq's of "overall" alkalinity to be removed

The acid strength of 88% Lactic Acid relative to (or specifically at) a target pH of 5.4 is 11.451 mEq/mL

92.869 mEq / 11.451 mEq/mL = 8.11 mL of 88% Lactic Acid to be added

The result of adding 8.11 mL of 88% Lactic Acid to 32.5 Liters of 158.9 mg/L (ppm) Alkalinity (as CaCO3) water should be 32.5 Liters of pH ~5.4 water. Wherein admittedly this short-cut method (of presuming 90% alkalinity reduction to yield 5.4 pH) does not account for the waters initial pH, so some very slight and generally insignificant final pH variation may occur.

This knowledge plus good overall brewing technique and practices should lead to better homebrew beer.
 
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Some other mEq/mL acid strengths relative to pH 5.4:

10% Phosphoric Acid = 1.0903 mEq/mL
30% Phosphoric Acid = 3.667 mEq/mL
75% Phosphoric Acid = 12.262 mEq/mL
85% Phosphoric Acid = 14.865 mEq/mL

88% Lactic Acid = 11.451 mEq/mL
80% Lactic Acid = 10.246 mEq/mL

AMS/CRS = 3.66 mEq/mL

Citric Acid (anhydrous) = ~12.635 mEq/gram
 
Deep Jerry, very deepo_O
 
Does this chart help? On it you can see (along the 'Y Axis' scale) that:

1) At ~4.3 pH the HCO3- bicarbonate species (and thus Alkalinity) of water is at a fraction of zero percent remaining. It's gone.
2) At ~5.2 pH the HCO3- bicarbonate species (and thus Alkalinity) of water is at a fraction of roughly 6% percent remaining.
3) At ~5.4 pH the HCO3- bicarbonate species (and thus Alkalinity) of water is at a fraction of roughly 10% percent remaining.
4) At ~5.75 pH the HCO3- bicarbonate species (and thus Alkalinity) of water is at a fraction of roughly 20% percent remaining.
5) At ~6.0 pH the HCO3- bicarbonate species (and thus Alkalinity) of water is at a fraction of roughly 30% percent remaining.
Etc...

Yeast (which along with excreting CO2, also excrete a weak acid) have their best chance to bring a decarbonated beers pH down to within the ideal 3.9 to 4.3 pH range if they get their initial start within a Wort with a pH of 5.0 to 5.2. This has been well known and peer review documented by brewery scientists since roughly the mid 1920's. If the yeast fail to reduce the pH sufficiently and your beer winds up with a pH above 4.4, highly undesired bacteria can grow in it. At 4.3 pH and below bacteria can't grow. That this information does not seem to click with homebrewers or homebrew oriented authors (who are not likely to be peer reviewed) does not impact its validity or importance. And to stay on topic, if you are of the habit of making up volume to a volume target via adding water with too much remaining bicarbonate, you are hindering the yeast from accomplishing their vital task of bringing the final beer into the ideal pH range. So, to avoid hindering the yeast it would be best to add post boil and cooling "make-up" water at a pH of ~5.2.

HCO3-.png
 
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Come to think of this further, with extract brewing the concentrated to nigh-on fully dried Wort is presumably already ideally pre-mineralized, and it is also well buffered against pH change, and when reconstituted within RO or distilled water should return to right where the manufacturer intended it to be as to both minerals and pH. That said, if it were instead to be reconstituted in bicarbonate rich mineral water its buffering would be eroded and tested by the bicarb ion to perhaps the point of buffer collapse, at which point the Wort's pH would begin to noticeably rise. This in and of itself may place the yeast at a starting off point disadvantage. So to counter the disadvantage the pre-boil Wort should likely best be reconstituted with pH 5.4 to 5.6 acidified water, just as for the case whereby any latter stage volume "make-up" water should be acidified and introduced at 5.0 to 5.2 pH. Acidifying all water to be used to a pH of 5.3-5.4 would likely be a decent compromise that requires only a single acidification, as opposed to two separate acidifications.
 
The easiest way out of the bicarbonate/alkalinity conundrum is to exclusively use "good" RO or distilled water when Extract brewing. There is virtually nothing present within RO or distilled which can alter the buffering and presumably already ideal mineralization and pH which are baked (so to speak) into the DME and/or LME.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
The easiest way out of the bicarbonate/alkalinity conundrum is to exclusively use "good" RO or distilled water when Extract brewing. There is virtually nothing present within RO or distilled which can alter the buffering and presumably already ideal mineralization and pH which are baked (so to speak) into the DME and/or LME.
Click to expand...
True that; however, diluting it with reasonably good tap water works fine as long as you dechlorinate. This is one of those "depends on how far down the rabbit hole you are" kind of discussions. Since in the drying process, the only thing removed from the wort is good old dihydrogen monoxide, yes, distilled water would make sense as an addition. But this is a beginner's forum and I don't want to scare them off by putting too much detail in - carbonate species charts wouldn't have made any sense at all to me when I was a beginner. Practical advise on reconstituting extract:

1. Use distilled/RO water if it's available to you or you can buy it, or,
2. Add a half of a Campden tablet, crushed, to your tap water (provided it tastes, well, like water and not like some nastiness like iron), stir, and use it to reconstitute wort.

For most practical purposes, the pH, bicarbonate, etc. will take care of themselves.
 
I knew it was a simple question....
upload_2021-3-18_22-11-35.png
 
I realize that beginners just want to make beer, and that the establishment doesn't want to rock that boat for fear of turning newbies off, but I believe that making bad beer is what eventually turns potential brewers off. Why should every new brewer who has high bicarbonate water, yet has no clue about it, or about the fact that this is a major reason for their disappointing beer, be turned off to this hobby in frustration? We don't all have high bicarbonate water, but many of us do. And among those who do, many have a serious case of high bicarbonate water. Why should a new brewer get frustrated and drop out due to this issue when the answer is so easy to reveal and the solution is not all that hard to address?

The old adage that if water tastes good it will make good beer is quite often false! And so is the presumption that if ones water pH is "normal" they will not have high alkalinity. The measure of pH itself does not equal or equate to low alkalinity at the normal pH's witnessed for fresh water.
 
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Silver_Is_Money said:
I realize that beginners just want to make beer, and that the establishment doesn't want to rock that boat for fear of turning newbies off, but I believe that making bad beer is what eventually turns potential brewers off. Why should every new brewer who has high bicarbonate water, yet has no clue about it, or about the fact that this is a major reason for their disappointing beer, be turned off to this hobby in frustration? We don't all have high bicarbonate water, but many of us do. And among those who do, many have a serious case of high bicarbonate water. Why should a new brewer get frustrated and drop out due to this issue when the answer is so easy to reveal and the solution is not all that hard to address?

The old adage that if water tastes good it will make good beer is quite often false!
Click to expand...

Indeed, and here, here to that.
Fast forward to 7:22 of this video, where they give the worst advice that you can give any new brewer...
"Tap water, If it's good to drink, it's good to brew"
No mention whatsoever about chlorine...
 
As to what exactly is high bicarbonate, the peer reviewed brewers of yore told us. They said that any water with greater than 50 ppm Alkalinity (which is 61 ppm as bicarbonate) must be acidified to lower it to the ideal, which they also specified as 25 ppm Alkalinity or less (30.5 ppm bicarbonate or less).

Those with 80 ppm Alkalinity (for example) may manage to make good beer, and then go on to tell someone with 140 ppm or higher Alkalinity that since I can make good beer from good tasting water, so can you. Seriously bad inference from intuition alone.

One of my favorite sayings is that "intuition makes for bad science". We see it all the time. Particularly since about a year ago.
 
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