Transfer oxidation after pressure fermentation

[ScaniaBrew]

Hi all,

Relatively new brewer here. Last Sunday I put together a 19 litre batch of cream ale and decided to try out my new spunding valve and ferment under pressure in my corny keg. However, in my eagerness and excitement over an exceptional brew day, I forgot to clip an inch or two off the dip tube in the keg...

Now I am nearly the end of the fermentation and I need to rack the beer off the yeast cake. I suspect that pumping it out with the help of CO2 and a picnic tap will bring along far too much yeast -- not to mention that I only have 1 corny keg at present.

So here's the question:

How much oxidation would I risk if I siphoned out the beer from the keg into a sanitised fermenter purged with CO2, cleaned and sanitised the keg, and then retransfered to the corny keg (which I also plan to purge with CO2)?

Is this a lost cause, or could this beer still maintain a shelf life of a few months (or at least a month -- I am making it for a party in early April) following this method?

 

[Minbari]

Hi all,

Relatively new brewer here. Last Sunday I put together a 19 litre batch of cream ale and decided to try out my new spunding valve and ferment under pressure in my corny keg. However, in my eagerness and excitement over an exceptional brew day, I forgot to clip an inch or two off the dip tube in the keg...

Now I am nearly the end of the fermentation and I need to rack the beer off the yeast cake. I suspect that pumping it out with the help of CO2 and a picnic tap will bring along far too much yeast -- not to mention that I only have 1 corny keg at present.

So here's the question:

How much oxidation would I risk if I siphoned out the beer from the keg into a sanitised fermenter purged with CO2, cleaned and sanitised the keg, and then retransfered to the corny keg (which I also plan to purge with CO2)?

Is this a lost cause, or could this beer still maintain a shelf life of a few months (or at least a month -- I am making it for a party in early April) following this method?

If you are gravity or pressure transferring with co2 with co2 purged containers. Very minimal

 

[ScaniaBrew]

If you are gravity or pressure transferring with co2 with co2 purged containers. Very minimal

Hi, and thanks for the reply! It would unfortunately be to a Speidel barrel fermenter like this:

 

[Minbari]

Hi, and thanks for the reply! It would unfortunately be to a Speidel barrel fermenter like this: View attachment 24617

If you co2 purge it first, then fill into the bottom valve. Should be ok.

For the most part this is prolly not a huge deal to begin with. But that is how i would do it

 

[ScaniaBrew]

If you co2 purge it first, then fill into the bottom valve. Should be ok.

For the most part this is prolly not a huge deal to begin with. But that is how i would do it

Sounds great - thanks for the input (and perhaps the extra comfort as well) - would be sad to have this batch ruined.

 

[Minbari]

Sounds great - thanks for the input (and perhaps the extra comfort as well) - would be sad to have this batch ruined.

I am assuming this is already fermented, correct?

 

[Zambi]

Lemme het this right:
You fermented in the keg and now you want to transfer to the speidel.
Clean keg and transfer back to the keg?

I'm wondering if you should maybe do so, but add a sugar solution to the speidel..
Then get active fermentation again and transfer to the clean keg and continu spunding?

Please realise I am just thinking out loud as I got hardly any experience with kegging

Or, leave much as is and use a floating dip tube in the keg. It will still require you to open the keg though

 

[ScaniaBrew]

I am assuming this is already fermented, correct?

Yes - OG of 1.055, calculated FG of 1.007 (not necessarily expecting to be this efficient). Current gravity from the sample I pulled this morning before work was 1.020 after 9 days of fermentation.

 

[Minbari]

Yes - OG of 1.055, calculated FG of 1.007 (not necessarily expecting to be this efficient). Current gravity from the sample I pulled this morning before work was 1.020 after 9 days of fermentation.

Ok just making sure. If it wasn't fermented, then you don't need, or even want to do this

 

[The Brew Mentor]

After 9 days you're at 1.020?
That should already be finished.
What are you using to check you gravity?
I do like the idea of adding some simple sugar to it if you're transferring and also purging the vessels with CO2.
Another option is that you can just take the liquid dip tube out, cut it off and then put it back in without really opening it up at all.

 

[ScaniaBrew]

After 9 days you're at 1.020?
That should already be finished.
What are you using to check you gravity?
I do like the idea of adding some simple sugar to it if you're transferring and also purging the vessels with CO2.
Another option is that you can just take the liquid dip tube out, cut it off and then put it back in without really opening it up at all.

So I am using fermentis safale us-05 and fermenting at 16C, so on the lower side of the temp range. If I understand correctly, you think the fermentation should already be completed, or?

Using a standard hydrometer/graduated cylinder set up for now.

If I remove the tube and cut it, is there not a risk for autolysis if the beer is kept on the yeast cake?

 

[The Brew Mentor]

So I am using fermentis safale us-05 and fermenting at 16C, so on the lower side of the temp range. If I understand correctly, you think the fermentation should already be completed, or?

Using a standard hydrometer/graduated cylinder set up for now.

If I remove the tube and cut it, is there not a risk for autolysis if the beer is kept on the yeast cake?

Safale 05 really doesn't like to ferment that cold and that's likely why it isn't finished yet. I'd certainly warm it up and stay within the temperature ranges specified by the scientists/manufacturer.

The reason I asked about what tool you were using to measure gravity was, some tools aren't accurate or less accurate in the presence of alcohol. So just seeing if you were finished and getting a bad reading or still had fermentables left.

Autolysis will occur very slowly and really takes a long time to be detectable. I was thinking you could cut the dip tube off about 3/4 of an inch, re-assemble it then do a pressure transfer to a purged vessel with some simple sugar added to it. Then clean and purge the keg, transfer back and warm it up to finish fermenting.

Good Luck
Brian

 

[ScaniaBrew]

Safale 05 really doesn't like to ferment that cold and that's likely why it isn't finished yet. I'd certainly warm it up and stay within the temperature ranges specified by the scientists/manufacturer.

The reason I asked about what tool you were using to measure gravity was, some tools aren't accurate or less accurate in the presence of alcohol. So just seeing if you were finished and getting a bad reading or still had fermentables left.

Autolysis will occur very slowly and really takes a long time to be detectable. I was thinking you could cut the dip tube off about 3/4 of an inch, re-assemble it then do a pressure transfer to a purged vessel with some simple sugar added to it. Then clean and purge the keg, transfer back and warm it up to finish fermenting.

Good Luck
Brian

Thanks for this! Also -- if I were to be really lazy could I just keep it all in the current keg? Perhaps after a cold crash the beer would run relatively clear after the first few pours if autolysis isn't as big of an issue as I feared? (Also just did some reading about that here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/autolysis-myth-busted.182160/ and indeed it seems like the fears about that are overblown)
What do you think?

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Transfer it, otherwise you'll be drinking a lot of yeast.
Your "friends" will be sharting!!!!

 

[ScaniaBrew]

Transfer it, otherwise you'll be drinking a lot of yeast.
Your "friends" will be sharting!!!!

Alrighty, with that input I think I will just rack it now and let it do a secondary for a few days before crashing it. Cheers!

 

[Megary]

If it’s still fermenting, transfer now to the fermenter and let it finish. Then re-rack to the keg when it’s done. No concern of off-flavors in my opinion. Especially if it will be gone in a month or two.

Cheers!

 

[Minbari]

Alrighty, with that input I think I will just rack it now and let it do a secondary for a few days before crashing it. Cheers!

Do you have another keg? Then you could transfer to that keg and skip transferring it back.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Do you have another keg? Then you could transfer to that keg and skip transferring it back.

That would be the easy way!

 

[ScaniaBrew]

That would be the easy way!

Alright - so just transferred everything to my barrel fermenter, which i purged with CO2 before racking in (without splashing at all!), then cleaned the keg, and re-racked from the fermenter into the keg, which i also purged with CO2 before siphoning in. Also blasted quickly with CO2 after refilling and sealing the keg to clear the headspace. Put on my spunding value again set to 5 PSI and its already bubbling steadily as it was earlier (have a blowoff tube going into a jar of starsan and water). I am thinking that I can serve from this keg after cold crashing and carbonating in a few days' time?

 

[Craigerrr]

You could remove the dip tube, trim it and then replace it
Pulling it out should give you a good idea where to cut it.
Better yet would be to remove the dip tube and replace it with a floating dip tube.
Whatever you do, clean and sanitize, and wear gloves (with the gloves on, wash your hands, and
I think a bigger concern with moving the beer back and forth would be the potential for infection

Note, this post was created earlier, so disregard whatever has been covered in subsequent posts...