Total Recipe Mash Diastatic Power Calculation

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by vinobrew, May 15, 2015.

  1. vinobrew

    vinobrew New Member

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    I was recently completing a recipe that called for a lot of wheat/adjuncts. Short of adding 6-Row, I wasn't sure if there was enough starch-converting enzymes to complete my mash. A great addition would be an area where you can see calculated approximate values for diastatic calculations.

    As a general rule of thumb, you want to make sure your mash averages 70 Linter or above.

    In the Advanced recipe options and stats, under Batch Stats, I could see an area where:

    Diastatic Power (DP), Linter and Windisch-Kolbach stats would be awesome.
     

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  2. UgliestLemming

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    I definitely agree this would be nice. 30-35 Linter from what I understand is considered self converting. 70 would be a safe rule of thumb though.
     
  3. Bealski

    Bealski New Member

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    This would be great!
     
  4. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    ^^^ Agree with this ^^^^ Or at least should be built / calculated when building a recipe. I'm still fairly new to brewing and today was my first encounter with what I believe to be a diastatic issue. In my brew recipe that I printed it says:

    American - Chocolate - 350 L (linter)
    American - Midnight Wheat - 550 L (linter)
    Carmel Crystal 40L - 40 L (linter)

    Those malts should be all 0 L (linter) correct?

    I'm quoting from beersmith, but seeing the diastatic # would be a nice addition when building recipes.

    "To get a quick idea of whether you have sufficient diastatic power in your all grain or partial mash brew, I recommend you simply average the weighted diastatic power of your ingredients and see whether the final number is greater than the 30 Lintner minimum needed to convert. The overall diastatic power for your mash would be the sum of the diastatic power for each ingredient times its weight divided by the total grain weight. To get this number, just multiply the diastatic power for each grain times the weight of that grain, add the numbers up for all of your grains, and divide by the total grain weight."
     
  5. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I think those numbers are lovibond, which is for color

    Off the top of my head, I've seen American 2row with upwards of 100 lintner, but nowhere near 200. A more highly kilned/roasted malt, like you said, would be much lower than a 2row for instance
     
  6. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    Followup, off topic question, how much base malt did you use? What percentage of the grain bill was it?
     
  7. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    in recipe edit mode click the arrow to the left of each fermentable. is that what your looking for
     
  8. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Good idea! Aside from getting lovibond and lintner confused above, I think I understand what you guys are saying. You'd like to see the diastastic power of each malt, and the total for the mash when writing recipes, correct? I know it's not an issue with an all-malt batch, but using adjuncts could create a problem I suppose. Thanks for the input!
     
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  9. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    Correct Yooper! I created a session stout a few weeks ago and it was saying the beer was going to finish out at 5.23%ABV. The recipe was all specialty malts, the closest thing to a base malt was the Munich 10L. I hit my OG and all my other numbers, but the FG was supposed to be at 1.022 and I came in at 1.040! That's when I started reading about Diastatic Power (DP) and realized I was lacking it in my recipe.

    The good news, the beer turned out awesome! The bad news, it was a super session, 3%ABV, vs the 5.23% I was shooting for. It would be great to see the DP being calculated or letting the user know if they're is an issue when creating recipes!
     
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  10. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    We are working on this right now. The idea is to have a "running total" of the DP visible in the recipe view, so you can see what you have and where you need to be.
     
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  11. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    Awesome!!! Thank You!
     
  12. onesecondglance

    onesecondglance New Member

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    This doesn't appear to work with custom grain additions?
     
  13. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    We are fixing that- you will have to put the DP in yourself but we are making a "box" for that entry. It should be up today.
     
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  14. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    So the user puts in the DP, will there be a chart showing DP of the various malts or will users have to do the research? Also, as the DP changes, will this change the ABV being displayed?

    I ask, because when I created a session Stout, which is made of all specialty grains, no base, Munich malt is the only malt in my recipe with any DP. Yet Brewers Friend says that the beer will come in at 5.23%...it came in at 3.5% which makes more sense w/ the lack of DP I had in the grain bill.

    Thanks for your input!
     
  15. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes, for custom ingredients you will have to put in the DP of your malt. It's not that hard, though- really, specialty grains and roasted grains and adjuncts are 0. The only malts that have DP generally are base malts, and those are easy to guess if you can't find the malt analysis sheet by finding a similar malt.

    The ABV shouldn't change based on DP. It's about conversion, and not attenuation.
     
  16. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    But if the recipe doesn't have any or very little DP how would it have enough enzymatic proteins or fermentable sugars, to create the alcohol content that Brewers Friend is displaying? Maybe I'm missing something...
     
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  17. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    You can't even "go" that far, without the conversion. If you don't have enough DP, the wort will be full of starch. So it's a "stop" right there. The calculations for attenuation and so on would be absolutely meaningless. The OG WILL still show the same, but of course it won't be fermentable.

    That's why we're adding the DP calculation. Most brewers with experience know that conversion in imperative, and needs base malt. But for those few who are inexperienced, this can be an issue. Fermentability requires conversion, and so if you don't get conversion, the ABV % calculation is meaningless anyway.
     
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  18. Chip Diddie

    Chip Diddie New Member

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    I'm am still new to brewing, only 1 year, and I appreciate your insight. I guess I was assuming when you adjust the DP that somehow that played into the calculation of what the FG would be, with an end result giving a more accurate ABV estimate. Hopefully my newb questions help the next brewer thinking & wondering the same thing. Thanks for your responses!
     
  19. Jerry R

    Jerry R New Member

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    I the box to enter diastic power for a fermentable still doesn't exist does it? I can't find it and DP doesn't seem to be working in some of my recipes. Thanks.
     
  20. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I'm not sure what you're asking here. Can you give me a link to one of your recipes where you're having problems?
     

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