Sugar????

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Vallka, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Vallka

    Vallka Well-Known Member

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    What is........................... no. 3 invert sugar
     
  2. chub1

    chub1 Active Member

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    One up from N0 2:)
    Invert 2 and 3 can be made using golden syrup and molasses on the stove top.N0 1 is basically golden syrup.
    here-Making Brewers Invert | half a cat
    Warning,do not attempt to use the ' lets brew' listing at top of page as it has been hacked.This page is fine however:)
     
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  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It's a partially caramelized invert syrup. I am not directly familiar with #3 so I can't tell you how dark it is but in general, darkened sugar syrups are great for adding some real caramel flavor while thinning out the body of a beer.
     
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  4. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    "Invert sugar made from refined sugar lacks the lusciousness and other characteristics desirable in a brewing sugar, so that raw cane sugars are generally used. In addition to invert sugar, uninverted saccharose and water, therefore, commercial invert contains from 0.2 to 0.7% of albuminoids, from 3 to 6% of unfermentable organic matter and from i to 3.5% of mineral matter, the latter being partly derived from the raw material and partly introduced as calcium carbonate to neutralise the acid used in effecting hydrolysis. Sulphuric acid is generally employed as hydrolyst because the comparative insolubility of calcium sulphate makes it possible to eliminate most of the mineral matter introduced for the purpose of neutralisation.

    Raw beet sugar could not be used for the production of brewers' invert, on account of the objectionable flavour of the secondary constituents. No such objection would attach to the use of hightly refined beet sugar, but highly refined sugars are not used for the reasons already stated. Occasionally invert sugar is made from a mixture of raw cane sugar and high- grade raw beet sugars (first runnings) and the origin of such invert sugar is not readily detected by the palate or nose. It is, however, desirable to exclude it from the brewery, and this can usually be done by limiting the permissible percentage of albuminoids, which is higher in beet than in cane products. Brewers' invert is supplied in three grades, and it is reasonable to require them to contain less than the following percentages of albuminoids: No. I, 0.3%; No. II, 0.5%; and No. Ill, 0.75%. A good No. Ill will comply with the standard here set up for No. I, so that the above limits cannot be unduly stringent."
    "Allen's commerical organic analysis", 1917, pages 7-8.
     
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  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ I guess that's another approach, although raw sugar and invert sugar are really two different things. Raw sugars have some of the molasses remaining so the flavor is molasses, not caramel.
     
  6. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    You can buy brewers invert commercially from Ragus, but I think the minimum quantity they would consider is 25kg, which is not practical for the home brewer.

    My take on making brewers invert... (Cheat)

    No.1: 90% Golden Syrup, 10% Honey
    No.2: 80% Golden Syrup, 10% Honey, 10% Black Treacle
    No,3: 50% Golden Syrup, 10% Honey, 40% Black Treacle

    Golden Syrup is partially inverted and Black Treacle is a mix of golden Syrup and Molasses. The Honey brings it a bit closer to proper British brewers invert sugar.

    Have a read of Ron's blog here...
    http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html
     
  7. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    From Ragus website...

    Brewer’s Sugar No.1
    This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s 95% readily fermentable, with a subtle colour (25-35 EBC) and mellow flavour. It’s used in brewing lager and pale ale.

    Brewer’s Sugar No.2
    This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s 95% readily fermentable, with an amber colour (60-70 EBC) and strong flavour. It’s used in bitter and strong ale.

    Brewer’s Sugar No.3
    This can be produced as a fully inverted (glucose-fructose mixture) syrup or seeded into a crystalline block. It’s is 95% readily fermentable, with a dark brown colour (120-140 EBC) and rich flavour. It’s used in mild ale, stouts and porters.​
     
  8. okoncentrerad

    okoncentrerad Active Member

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    I got a recipe for making invert sugar, like this (have no idea if it's correct or not):
    Raw sugar, water, glukose and
    ascorbic acid. Boil at 114c for 20 minutes to get invert #1, 60 minutes to get invert #2 and 2 hours, or until it's just about black, to get invert #3.
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    This is one part of brewing I ain't explored yet very interesting! So as for this iverted sugars usage use instead of caramel malts to impart colour and Carmel flavours into the beer as well as lighten body?
     
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  10. chub1

    chub1 Active Member

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    Best get yer finger out then and have a go:rolleyes::):D
    I did a couple of porters and a stout and made some N02 and N0 3 up,it's easy.
     
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  11. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    I must admit my (cheat) method of making brewers sugar is a bit off. My No.1 is closest (90% Golden Syrup and 10% honey). My No.2 is ok, but my No.3 is not, but tastes good!

    I must make an effort to make proper No.2 & No.3. as I like to brew classical English beers.

    Here is an example of subbing No.1 for Golden Syrup & Honey. Apart from the subbing of No.1 and the Wheat Malt the recipe is authentic and is very close to the original, I can remember drinking gallons of Lees mild in the 70s.

    Title: Best Mild
    Author: Lees - 1952 - Best Mild

    Brew Method: All Grain
    Style Name: Dark Mild
    Boil Time: 60 min
    Batch Size: 22 liters (fermentor volume)
    Boil Size: 27.5 liters
    Boil Gravity: 1.022
    Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


    STATS:
    Original Gravity: 1.037
    Final Gravity: 1.009
    ABV (standard): 3.65%
    IBU (tinseth): 27.64
    SRM (morey): 50

    FERMENTABLES:
    2150 g - United Kingdom - Mild (66.3%)
    125 g - United Kingdom - Crystal 70L (3.9%)
    125 g - United Kingdom - Chocolate (3.9%)
    100 g - United Kingdom - Brown (3.1%)
    50 g - United Kingdom - Black Patent (1.5%)
    150 g - United Kingdom - Wheat (4.6%)
    50 g - Honey - (late addition) (1.5%)
    454 g - Golden Syrup - (late addition) (14%)
    40 g - Brupaks Brewers Caramel (Optional) - (late addition) (1.2%)

    HOPS:
    30 g - Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 19.97
    15 g - Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 7.67

    MASH GUIDELINES:
    1) Infusion, Temp: 65 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 9.3 L, First Mash
    2) Infusion, Temp: 70 C, Time: 15 min, Amount: 9 L, 1st Mash Top-up
    3) Infusion, Temp: 70 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 15 L, 2nd Mash
    Starting Mash Thickness: 2.5 L/kg

    YEAST:
    Wyeast - London Ale III 1318

    NOTES:
    Honey and Golden Syrup added to the boil ( Dilute with hot wort before adding to kettle)

    Brupaks Brewers Caramel (Optional)
    Brewers Caramel is a natural colour adjuster. Use to darken all styles of beer. Can be added during the boil, in the fermenter or for final adjustments in the conditioning tank.

    Dosage: 1.5ml in 25 litres of wort will increase colour by 1 SRM (2 EBC).

    If you don't have, or can't get brewers caramel, leave it out, your beer will be paler, but will not effect the taste.
     
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  12. okoncentrerad

    okoncentrerad Active Member

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    Pardon a newbie question, I've seen this a couple of times.... "late addition", what's that? Add late in the mash? Boil?
     
  13. ACBEV

    ACBEV Active Member

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    Late addition in this case means add to the boil, not the mash. In the recipe editor there are two tick boxes for custom fermentables, mash and late edition. If both are checked, that means late edition to mash, if mash is not selected I'm guessing it means by-passing the mash altogether.
     
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  14. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Going to be honest, never even heard of this before now.
     
  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Maybe just a bit of TMI.... Did we get your initial question answered?
     

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