Starter steps 2 and 3

nununene

nununene

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Just curious how to perform steps 2 and 3 for a starter?
 
nununene said:
Just curious how to perform steps 2 and 3 for a starter?
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Need a bit more information please.

Are you talking about stepping "up" a starter eg. Where you've propogated your yeast chilled decanted supernatant ready for next step?

If so repeat Step one in making your starter wort and pitch this once cooled ontop of your starter to resume propogation. I could only imagine doing this for Lager fermentation.
 
If you use the yeast starter calculator, it pretty much walks you through it. I did a two-step lager starter about a week ago, following the advice of the calculator. I added the liquid yeast to a 2L starter, then two days later added 2L more wort to it. The amounts are all calculated for you on the yeast starter calculator.
 
I believe stepping up is normally done to propagate yeast from small volume sources where each step is 10x the previous volume. Adding 2 liters of wort on top of the yeast from a 2 liter starter will restart fermentation but won't yield much additional yeast.
A step up from 2 liters to 20 will result in an increase in yeast mass so if lots of yeast is needed, better to make a small beer, 1.04 or there about, and ferment a big beer or lager on the yeast.
 
Nosybear said:
I believe stepping up is normally done to propagate yeast from small volume sources where each step is 10x the previous volume. Adding 2 liters of wort on top of the yeast from a 2 liter starter will restart fermentation but won't yield much additional yeast.
A step up from 2 liters to 20 will result in an increase in yeast mass so if lots of yeast is needed, better to make a small beer, 1.04 or there about, and ferment a big beer or lager on the yeast.
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I've heard of the ten-times rule before but, if you search the net, you'll see that there's a lot of discussion about it, i.e. is it folk wisdom or is there a scientific basis for it? In practical terms, it's not too useful for homebrew-sized batches. What would you do, start at 20 ml then step up to 2L? I mean, if you go from 2L to 20L, you've pretty much brewed your batch already!

Personally, I trust that the Brewer's Friend yeast propagation calculator is sound. Also, I can tell you that my two-step starter (2L water plus + 300g DME + Czech Lager Yeast culture, then 2 days later another 2L water + 300g DME) had my 38L lager batch going very nicely in under 12 hours.
 
Flying Weasels Home Brewery said:
I've heard of the ten-times rule before but, if you search the net, you'll see that there's a lot of discussion about it, i.e. is it folk wisdom or is there a scientific basis for it? In practical terms, it's not too useful for homebrew-sized batches. What would you do, start at 20 ml then step up to 2L? I mean, if you go from 2L to 20L, you've pretty much brewed your batch already!

Personally, I trust that the Brewer's Friend yeast propagation calculator is sound. Also, I can tell you that my two-step starter (2L water plus + 300g DME + Czech Lager Yeast culture, then 2 days later another 2L water + 300g DME) had my 38L lager batch going very nicely in under 12 hours.
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So did my 2.5 l starter in 5 gal of pils wort. No second starter. The 10x rule, as mentioned, is for starting with small amounts of yeast.
 
I have a similar question for this group. I inputted the required information in the yeast starter calculator and step 1 tells me there aren’t enough yeast cells created. It further reads to either increase starter size, change aeration method (I’m using a stir plate), or do another step. If I do another step, do I decant the wort off the yeast cake from the first step and make another starter and continue the same process as in step 1? For information, I am brewing a high gravity Abbey Dubbel ale (FG-1.092) and using a 2L starter with Wyeast 3787 Belgian High Gravity yeast. Appreciate any input from y'all
 
First, there are no wrong answers. You can decant at each step or when all steps are done or add the whole starter to your beer. If you decant I would recommend cold-crashing it overnight to get more yeast to drop out of suspension. But it's fine if you don't. I think the only thing that will force you one way or another is the size of your starter vessel or the size of your fermenter. Another thing to note is that it's hard to under-pitch or over-pitch yeast to the point where it affects your beer. So, as long as your somewhat close to what the target pitching rate, you're good.

When I brew a high gravity beer, I start with a 1.5-2L starter in a 1 gallon jug on a stir plate. Then after 12-ish hours add another 2 L of wort to the existing starter. When that is done, in 18-ish hours, I cold-crash it and decant off the supernatant* before pitching.

* "Supernatant" is a fancy word for the liquid above a solid residue. Don't I sound smart? :D
 
just to make it simple you cant use the first yeast to start the second, do the above and only use a small portion for the next starter
 
Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
just to make it simple you cant use the first yeast to start the second, do the above and only use a small portion for the next starter
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So you don't suggest using all of yeast after step 1? Is it that the smaller amount of starting yeast in step 2 encourage more growth?
 
Thanks for the replies. So that i am clear, once I cold crash the first step and decant the wort (or supernatant as said earlier :), I take approximately a teaspoon off the yeast cake and proceed with a second step (starter)?
 
Just a smidge of scientific context, the variable you're controlling for the 2nd/3rd steps is the inoculation rate. I do the same thing by the way, and save 50mL of highly thick yeast slurry in a vial for future starters as well.
 
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