Snapshots are annoying

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Dustydust, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Dustydust

    Dustydust New Member

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    Title says it, dealing with snapshots is a PITA. They clutter up my recipes. I know I can toggle their visibility, but I have to leave them on if I want to find an old version of the recipe. Identifying the old version is very difficult with the current system.

    Here's my story:
    As somebody who is continually evolving my recipes, I would like to keep a historically sorted record of the changes in my recipe without cluttering my recipes UI. Ideally, I could see all "released" versions of my recipe when I open up a recipe.

    Additionally, when I change a recipe, past brew sessions use the update recipe. This is not right, and certainly isn't expected behavior from the customer's perspective. The updated session should always link to the recipe that was actually used during the session. I know the answer to this is to create a snapshot, but I've already established that snapshots are annoying because they create clutter in my recipes.

    I like to make my recipes public, but I think it would be cleaner to have all versions of a recipe self contained within the main recipe, instead of having dangling snapshots all over the place. If the user wants to completely disconnect a copied recipe from the original, then they can copy the recipe, using the functionality you've already provided.

    We need a better way to organize recipes. I enjoy using your tools, but this is pretty close to a deal breaker for me. I can't stand losing my recipe data for past brew sessions when I update a recipe. The recipe creation/update process is a bad experience for me through brewers friend.

    Thanks,
    Dustin
     
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  2. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Just trying to think of alternative ways of displaying the information. If we keep the snapshot system, but change how it's displayed, do you think that would work for you?

    What I'm thinking is that we can add a toggle to my recipes to only show the "latest" version of a recipe, as determined by the updated column. Then you would significantly reduce the clutter, maintain the connection between recipe version and brew session, and still be able to iterate.

    I also know we have a version history as well that may be of use, it's in "recipe tools" , I think # of versions stored is dependent on certain membership levels but I could be mistaken. Just doing a quick test, it doesn't look like brew sessions are tied to a specific recipe version, so that's not of much help here.

    @Yooper Any thoughts on the versioning feature, snapshots, and the proposal above?
     
  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I think I've suggested this before: The "snapshot" box in the Recipe listing should show snapshots if checked, not show them if not checked. I can think of a third option, only snapshots, but that can't be implemented with a check box. I prefer no snapshots be the default but that's just me.
     
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  4. Dustydust

    Dustydust New Member

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    Pricelessbrewing, I think your suggestion would be a great addition. Although, I'm unsure if the "latest updated" would have the desired impact. I would be concerned about snapshots showing up as the latest updated, when all I really want to update is the non-snapshot version. A toggle, as suggested by Nosybear, would help to reduce the clutter on the "my recipes" page.

    As a user, I use a snapshot in two different ways. First, I think of a snapshot as a moment in time from a long living, evolving recipe (non-snapshot recipe). The snapshot is something that I consider production ready and am willing to brew. I never update a snapshot, unless I'm making a special version of a recipe. I almost exclusively update my non-snapshot, evolving recipe. My updates are based on the results of the previous brews. Secondly, I use snapshots is to create different sized batches of the same recipe. I like to have different sized recipes on hand so I can share with folks or so I can switch up the volume I brew.

    Version history sounds really interesting, I wish that was available for lower tier subscriptions. However, I understand the need to provide value for each higher tier level. I try to use snapshots as a way to maintain versions, but I feel as though they aren't presented in a way that makes them easy to distinguish. It seems that snapshots can be used to accomplish versioning, they just don't do it as well as versioning does. For example, if a snapshot is modified with an addition to the note field, this will change the updated date, rendering date filtering useless since dates are sorted by updated (as opposed to creation date). Having a version number to go back to is easy to understand from my perspective.

    There are other ways to solve the snapshot versioning without creating a version number. I can think of sorting snapshots by creation date, instead of updated date. Ideally, all snapshots could be visible from the non-snapshot recipe. Although, this may be difficult since any user can snapshot a public recipe. Perhaps the snapshots would only be visible in the recipe if the snapshots were created by the account that owns the non-snapshot recipe. Ideally, for me, snapshots (or versions) would be visible (and sorted by creation date) from the non-snapshot recipe. This would help me track how the recipe is evolving.

    I think it's also important to not lose sight of the issue that brew sessions, are impacted when the linked recipe is changed. Often times, for me, brew sessions have notes that I want to use when making decisions about my iterations. The recipe that was actually brewed is lost when I update the recipe linked to the brew session. Unfortunately, this causes me to lose valuable information. I could chalk it up to user error that I didn't create a snapshot for the brew session, but I think I've made it clear that snap shots are difficult to sort though. You may understand my reluctance to create another snapshot, cluttering the "my recipes" view.

    I appreciate your quick response.

    Cheers,
    Dustin
     
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  5. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Yup I added this ticket when it was suggested as I agree with you. I bumped it again yesterday so this can be rolled out at the same time as this issue.
     
  6. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Thanks for your detailed response Dustin! I've linked this forum thread to the ticket and hope to come up with useful changes to the UI and the system to support the different ways users view the snapshots.
     
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  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
     
  8. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

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    For me this is the most serious issue. When brewing a recipe I make notes of observations and thoughts of things to possibly change. Having a single recipe tied to all brew sessions can be misleading and confusing. For example, while reviewing a recipe you plan to brew you ask yourself: "Did I already double the chocolate malt as my last session notes indicate I should?" or "My notes from last time say it was too sweet, should I reduce the crystal malt? Did I already?". So, in addition to the suggestions above, I would like to have a Read Only checkbox defaulted to true. That would force me to decide if I wanted to lose history or, if not, to make a copy or snapshot.
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I've been printing off recipie changes of late along with the "algrain brew day template" and using this a long with the brew log to take notes. So any changes to the recipie isn't as critical to remember I've got the printed recipies to refer to. Once I'm happy with a v1 v2 ect I choose that one I prefer and use this as the saved recipie in BF.
     
  10. Dustydust

    Dustydust New Member

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    That seems like a good approach to guarantee you don't lose your data. I love that BrewersFriend stores everything on the cloud. To me, a lot of the value from BrewersFriend is that I don't have to keep paper notes. However, if I'm losing my brew data, a paper backup may be necessary.
     
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  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I started keeping a paper copy of recipie then tucked the all grain template sheet behind it just for a backup and because the snapshot thing don't work for me.
    Plus there's nothing like going back over old wort soaked sticky recipies paper style. Can't get get that in mega pixel digital :).
     
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  12. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Just to make sure I understand, you'd like a way to disable saving for recipes that would force you to copy-edit or snapshot it to ensure data integrity?
     
  13. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

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    Correct. You would set a recipe to be read-only with a checkbox. If the checkbox is set then the Save button would be disabled. Unchecking read-only box would active the Save button. The read-only checkbox should probably be defaulted to false/unset.
     
  14. garrad21

    garrad21 New Member

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    What if snapshot recipes nested under the parent recipe as a sort of submenu on the My Recipes page? As it stands now, a snapshot can only really be identified by the word snapshot next to the recipe in the My Recipes page and you have to go to the original parent recipe to find all snapshots brewed from that recipes and it's child recipes. What I was thinking is that the parent recipe shows up on the My Recipes page with an arrow or something next to it that allows that recipe to be "expanded" downward and display all snapshot recipes brewed from that parent recipe. It would reduce overall clutter and could show a chronological evolution of that recipe.
     
  15. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Yeah that's what I was thinking.

    I think it should probably be a toggle of some kind to combine snapshots and parent recipes together, then either the parent recipe, more recently created recipe/snapshot, or the most recently updated recipe/snapshot would be shown in the collapsed view. You can toggle to open/close the parent/child recipes.
     
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  16. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Personally, my snapshots are my printed recipes in my binder.
     
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  17. Black Lion Homebrewery

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    Aren't the snapshots already tied to the original recipe at the bottom where it lists brew sessions? To keep them from cluttering things, I just made a "Snapshot" folder and move them their. If I need the specific recipe for that date, I follow the links at the bottom. I use the snapshots not only for versions but also for substitutions.

    Annotation 2020-07-30 142428.jpg
     
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I just occasionally go through and delete all of them. What's annoying (and I've posted this before) is the behavior of the filter. UXD: If I have a check/uncheck (binary) option, it generally means "Yes" or "No". The snapshot box is such a choice. It would seem that the behavior would be "If the box is checked, show snapshots, if not, do not show snapshots". That's not how it works. If the behavior is to be three options: Original only, original plus snapshots, snapshots only, either a dropdown control or two check boxes would be required. A radio button where one or both could be checked would work as well. In any case, the recipe listing's behavior for snapshots is confusing. Could be resolved by dropping all the snapshots into a default folder cleverly named "Snapshots", keeping them out of the main listing with no change in behavior.
     
  19. Baboonanza

    Baboonanza New Member

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    That's what I do already, it takes 2 seconds. An option to make it automatic would be nice but hardly necessary.
     
  20. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly how I do it. I keep all "versions" of the same general recipe together with all the "mods" I do as I go along. If I need to tweak things I also add a suffix to the original name and if significantly different it's a new name and I carry on to the next great adventure... Tally Ho....
     
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