I can't remember what thread it was but I was saying you could use Sinamar extract to darken a Schwarzbier. Well.... I'm eating those words. My last Schwarz came out a bit too light. It's not supposed to be black, despite the name, but this one, well, let's just say it was on the light end of the acceptable spectrum. So out comes the trusty Sinamar, in goes two ounces of it and at the next gravity check, it was indeed darker. Problem was, it was the wrong color of darker. The Carafa malts tend to color a Schwarzbier a rich Chestnut brown with red highlights. The Sinamar? Mud brown. Even with the yeast and trub filtered out, it becomes a warm brown but no red highlights to be found. It's relatively flavorless so I haven't ruined the beer, but I have damaged its appearance with the Sinamar. I'd used Sinamar before but not in a Schwarzbier. It's okay for darkening but the color is not as attractive as that achieved with dark malts. Next time? Cold-steep some Carafa III and throw it in. It's not harsh, has a mellow chocolate-coffee flavor acceptable in a Schwarzbier and I won't have a brown lager, which is what this may end up being called. And another lesson in not believing everything you read.