Second hot break with chiller and make-up water?

[pizza_guy]

I am once again getting back to brewing, and now I have a happy-fun wort chiller Yay! Now I am seeing something new. I insert my chiller at ten minutes to end of boil. The wort is not covering the top rings of the chiller, so I add make-up water from a smaller pot of boiling water. And then I get what looks like a sudden second hot break. Like the first hot break, I can control it by blowing on it for a minute or two. Huh?

I start with a 5 gallon pot with 12 quarts of water. When the water is boiling, I move it off the burner and add the liquid malt extract. When it is fully dissolved, I put the pot back on the burner. About ten minutes later, the wort is coming back to a boil. I expect my hot break to start in a couple minutes, and to last about two minutes or so.

Then I add my hops and start my mental timer (I write the time on my log sheet.)

Everything is normal, as I remember from my brewing from years ago.

Then at end minus ten minutes, I insert the chiller. Then I add boiling make-up water to cover the top tubes. And then -- another hot break. This time with hops. In two minutes or so of stirring and blowing on it, it goes away.

I don't think there is any temperature shock, as I am adding boiling water.

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[Donoroto]

Fwiw, a spray bottle of water, spritzed onto the foam, controls the hot break without making one dizzy from hyperventilation.

A hot break at T- 10 is strange indeed. Could it be something on the coil? In the water? I am stumped (not hard to do...)

 

[SabreSteve]

A hot break at T- 10 is strange indeed. Could it be something on the coil? In the water? I am stumped (not hard to do...)

Did you clean the chiller first? The boil will sterilize it but there could be oils or residues from the manufacturing process. If not I probably wouldn't worry too much, beer will probably still be fine but it could explain the hot break?

 

[pizza_guy]

Did you clean the chiller first?

Yes. After I turn off the water flow and remove the tubes, I put the chiller into a bucket of PBW. Later, maybe the next day, I take the chiller out of the PBW and give it a good rinse under the shower. Then I put it on my clean work table until next brew.

The chiller is stainless steel and I have used it six times now.

I should probably add some make-up water first (maybe at T-15), and see if that triggers it. Before the chiller, I would add the make-up water to my fermenter after pouring the wort in.

 

[pizza_guy]

Fwiw, a spray bottle of water, spritzed onto the foam, controls the hot break without making one dizzy from hyperventilation.

Yes, I have one handy. I remember some monster hot breaks in the past, but so far recently, they have been mild. But I am not using dark malt now, just amber, light, and wheat (Briess extracts).

 

[pizza_guy]

I just did another brew this morning. 6 pounds liquid amber extract, 4 pounds sugar (bigger beer), 1 ounce Southern Cross for boil and 1 ounce aroma (planned 5 minutes, actual 7).

Just before inserting the chiller, I added maybe half a gallon of boiling make-up water. The top of the boil was pretty clear before, and in about a minute I got a thin covering of foam. Then I inserted the chiller and covered it with more boiling make-up water. I watched it for a minute, then went to do something else. A couple minutes later, I saw a really big foam going, and I had to control it for a couple minutes, just like a regular hot break. It was pretty much done when I added the aroma hops.

The chiller coils were room temperature when I put it in. Could this be some kind of physical reaction where the wort throws off dissolved stuff when the temperature quickly goes down for a moment?

 

[Hawkbox]

Is this a hot break or just a boil over though? When it comes back up to temperature after you put the chiller in it could just be boiling over.

 

[pizza_guy]

Is this a hot break or just a boil over though? When it comes back up to temperature after you put the chiller in it could just be boiling over.

It acts like a hot break. I do not know the exact meaning of "boil over". The effect does seem to be connected with the temperature going down and then returning to a boil.

 

[Hawkbox]

Take a look at this video, hot break and boil over look different. Around 50 seconds in is where you start to see a boil over situation.

 

[pizza_guy]

Yes, I think the boil over is what is happening. So anytime anything changes, I have to be alert for this.

 

[Hawkbox]

Yep, are you turning the heat up to get the boil back quicker? That would definitely be a cause.

You don't need to have a really strong roiling boil, it can be a lighter boil which is easier to handle.

 

[pizza_guy]

Yep, are you turning the heat up to get the boil back quicker? That would definitely be a cause.

Looking at my notes, I turn down the heat just after the hot break (from HI to 7), then add my boil hops and start my 60 minutes. I did not turn up the heat when inserting the chiller and adding the boiling water. Since the chiller is dry at this time, I would not expect a lot of thermal mass in the metal.

Thanks for your replies!

 

[Hawkbox]

No problem. Any time you add anything to the kettle it can start a boil over so it helps to pay attention to it. But you'll get it.

No need to add more water unless you're doing that to maintain volume.