Scaling recipe-professional help

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Redbone Brewing Co., Nov 13, 2019.

  1. Redbone Brewing Co.

    Redbone Brewing Co. New Member

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    I would like to scale my recipes from 12 gallon batches to 7 bbl batches. I have used scaling before but now see a footnote saying Do not use this tool to scale up to production recipes without expert input! What kind of input should i get?
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    You need to know your system, your routine conversion efficiency, wort losses, boil-off rate, etc. Scale up our 5 gallon batches without knowing this and you'll be way off in your calculations. I believe, if you know your system's brewhouse efficiency, you can use that to make up for the differing systems' parameters.
     
  3. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Also, even though we have excellent software, not everything scales up linearly so it’s not an exact replication of the recipe when you scale up that dramatically. We do have a pro consultant on staff, and I can see if he can give some tips on using the homebrew version of our software for a 7 bbl size system. He works on Brewer’s Friend Pro for our professional brewing friends, and maybe he can help here.

    @Nkauffman
     
  4. Nkauffman

    Nkauffman Moderator
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    Your efficiencies for each system will be different. If you know the equipment profile specifications for the 7bbl system, that will be a great start. E.g. evaporation rate for a ‘brewery sized’ boil kettle will be ~3-5% rather than a ~15% evaporation rate for homebrew systems. If you scale up the recipe and your equipment profiles are established for the 7bbl system, you can then compare your 12 gallon recipe to the 7 bbl scaled up recipe and notice that Ibu and hop utilization does not scale equally. Adjust those accordingly. Malt does scale up with the percentages and amount in the malt bill, but you will have to adjust your total amount since the system efficiencies are different, and since evaporation rate is less for brewery sized boil kettles, you will need less volume for preboil, which effects hop utilization and total water needed for the scaled up brew. If you do have your equipment profile established for the 7bbl system, then simply compare your numbers (hop utililzation and Ibus/ malt bill needs) for each recipe based on that equipment profile and adjust accordingly. Keep in mind other variables, such as that the strike temp will change as you are using a different mash tun with different thermal properties.

    Typically, breweries pitch yeast at a much higher rate to avoid off flavors and to fight against any sort of possible infection, so a larger yeast pitch proportionally is advised. Scaling of water is strait forward if it is the same water source; if not, it will be difficult to replicate without testing the water sources.

    Chilling method should be taken into consideration as well. If you use an immersion chiller for the 12 gallon batches and a plate chiller for the 7 bbl system, your recipes, especially for heavily hopped IPAs will be different. If you do use a plate chiller for the 12 gallon batches, compare knock out times though your chilling unit and adjust hop additions accordingly.

    There are so many variables in scaling up homebrew recipes to a brewery size. I hope this is a good start in helping you to do so. I am happy to help you work through this more if you like.

    Cheers!

    Nick Kauffman
    Brewer/ Sales
     
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  5. Redbone Brewing Co.

    Redbone Brewing Co. New Member

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    All thanks...Nick that was very helpful. I'll ask for help once I have the system up and running. Without ya'll help trial and error is kinda expensive.
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Run a brew with nothing but water and see where your losses are. That'll give you every loss other than grain and hop absorption. Added goodness: Boil it and you can determine your boil-off rate! It might be possible to predict where your system loses wort using some engineering but I'd go the empirical route and do a run using plain water to find the losses.
     
  7. Redbone Brewing Co.

    Redbone Brewing Co. New Member

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    You're saying: run the whole process including mashing (without grain) with strike water to the boil kettle, measure the volume for loss then boil for the 60 boil then measure again?
     
  8. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I'm no pro by any means and neither is my set up, but I did run water through my mash tun to see what losses I'd have there that I could adjust for before going with grain.
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    #9 Nosybear, Nov 18, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    That will give you a good empirical test of your system's losses except for grain and hops absorption. Grain and hop losses depend on the mass of each so are fairly predictable. Best way I can think of to shake down your system without risking a full brew.

    Load your mash tun with a known quantity of water. Pump it over to the kettle. Boil the water, chill it and pump it to a fermentor with a calibrated sight glass or other fairly accurate measurement. Your loss from the mash tun to the fermentor should tell you how much wort you'll lose on brew day. Note that you'll lose wort sparging as well.
     
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