Red X malt, and mash pH

[oliver]

Question about Red X malt to anyone who's used it..

I'm trying to do a 100% Red X IPA, I want to go West Coast water on this one, but the calculations are showing the mash pH way too low with a base grain of 12L.

I feel like I can't do this, but can I mash these grains in DI water with no mineral additions? And then, after the mash, add all my mineral additions to the wort hit the profile I desire?

 

[BOB357]

It is advisable to have a minimum of 50ppm Calcium in the mash. I would add the salts to meet the profile and use the Baking soda to bring the mash pH up to the desired level. Just like adding acid except it moves pH in the opposite direction.

 

[CRUNK]

Question about Red X malt to anyone who's used it..

I'm trying to do a 100% Red X IPA, I want to go West Coast water on this one, but the calculations are showing the mash pH way too low with a base grain of 12L.

I feel like I can't do this, but can I mash these grains in DI water with no mineral additions? And then, after the mash, add all my mineral additions to the wort hit the profile I desire?

I dont recommend it for this reason, always remember you brew to your malt. If you want the full potential and better all around beer.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

just try a 50/50 or add enough to just dilute to get the right ph, you can also boil ahead and that's in the calculator as well

 

[wobdee]

Red X is a great malt, i brew with it often. For the best red results its recommended you brew a 1.050 OG beer. In my experience once you go over 1.060 the color starts to go brownish when using 100% Red X. Adding some 2 row base for higher OG will keep that redness in check and also help with the PH issues. Red x is a bit acidic but ive found the Brewers Friend PH calculator to be a tad more acidic than what my meter said.

 

[Group W]

Question about Red X malt to anyone who's used it..

I'm trying to do a 100% Red X IPA, I want to go West Coast water on this one, but the calculations are showing the mash pH way too low with a base grain of 12L.

I feel like I can't do this, but can I mash these grains in DI water with no mineral additions? And then, after the mash, add all my mineral additions to the wort hit the profile I desire?

Good question! Bob makes a good suggestion. I have brewed with it but only about 10-20% of the grain bill. I have a SMaSH IPA recipe but have never brewed it. That recipe shows a 5.32 mash PH using baking soda. I was going to run with it.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/608314/red-dog-smash

 

[Nosybear]

I finally googled Red X malt: It states it is designed for a 12 degree plato beer. Anything more, it should be cut with pilsner.

 

[oliver]

I'm doing 5lbs of Red X in a 2.5 gallon batch, recipe calculator says 13.3ºP OG at 75% efficiencies.

And then I'm going to bump up the wort with clear Candi Syrup to dry it out a little.

I could change it to 4.5 pounds, that hits 12.1ºP at 75% efficiencies, which will make a difference on my gravities, but not a difference on my water issue.

not going to brew this for another few beers probably, but I think I am going to try the baking soda route. And I've read some things that doing a step mash can help conversion and finished dryness in the beer. I've never done a step mash before, but in my electric all in one system, I think I can mash in around 144F? And then just bump temperature after 20-30 minutes until it hits 155? And a third step at 165?


Here's what I'm doing:

2.5 gallons

Red X - 5 lbs
Candi Syrup 0L - 1 lbs
(100g DME for starter)

.25oz Warrior FWH
1oz Amarillo Whirlpool 20 minutes
1oz Mosaic Whirlpool 20 minutes
2oz Amarillo DH
2oz Mosaic DH

California Ale 001 yeast.

Ca: 125 ... Mg: 5 ... Sodium: 45 ... Chloride: 50 ... Sulfate: 250 ... HCO3: 115

Baking soda bumps the Sodium and Bicarbonate up, and gives me a mash pH of 5.25

 

[Nosybear]

As far as the pH discussion, I'd call it normal variance, either in the malt or in the water supply. You aren't talking about a lot of difference between the actual 5.3 and the predicted 5.4.

 

[oliver]

As far as the pH discussion, I'd call it normal variance, either in the malt or in the water supply. You aren't talking about a lot of difference between the actual 5.3 and the predicted 5.4.

wait what?

I'm starting with DI water, building up from scratch. If I have no baking soda additions the mash pH is down somewhere near 5.05 or 5.00. the calcium additions drive it down too much.

I'm hoping that baking soda will buffer the mash to an acceptable pH, like 5.25 where the calculator has adjusted it to.

 

[Nosybear]

wait what?

I'm starting with DI water, building up from scratch. If I have no baking soda additions the mash pH is down somewhere near 5.05 or 5.00. the calcium additions drive it down too much.

I'm hoping that baking soda will buffer the mash to an acceptable pH, like 5.25 where the calculator has adjusted it to.

Sorry, misread your numbers. I was thinking you missed by a couple hundredths. Disregard everything after hello....

 

[GFHomebrew]

Was listening to a brulosophy podcast on mash length just yesterday and the Alaskan fellow does\did overnight mashes he found he would get An extra points out of conversion that way pluss then beers would attenuate better and slso found the beers seemed dryer. Their thoughts was the mash would slowly drop down through the beta amelayse range creating a more fermentable wort as it cooled.
May be worth a go Oliver if your after Andrew extra points and better attenuation with this redX beer.
Just to throw a spanner in the worx.

 

[oliver]

Was listening to a brulosophy podcast on mash length just yesterday and the Alaskan fellow does\did overnight mashes he found he would get An extra points out of conversion that way pluss then beers would attenuate better and slso found the beers seemed dryer. Their thoughts was the mash would slowly drop down through the beta amelayse range creating a more fermentable wort as it cooled.
May be worth a go Oliver if your after Andrew extra points and better attenuation with this redX beer.
Just to throw a spanner in the worx.

Not a bad idea. I’m more concerned with having correct mash pH to get my conversion. I have nearly no experience adding baking soda to increase the mash pH, and I was told a couple days ago baking soda could take a little while to dissolve. So it’s got me considering all my options now

 

[Nosybear]

My experiences adding baking soda have generally been negative. I get gushers afterward, once I read the chemistry of the entire thing but have forgotten it, something about precipitating microscopic apatite or calcium carbonate crystals that form condensation nuclei. It's harder to use and can be quite caustic but I believe hydroxide to be the better option for raising mash pH.

 

[oliver]

My experiences adding baking soda have generally been negative. I get gushers afterward, once I read the chemistry of the entire thing but have forgotten it, something about precipitating microscopic apatite or calcium carbonate crystals that form condensation nuclei. It's harder to use and can be quite caustic but I believe hydroxide to be the better option for raising mash pH.

gushers on your bottles? I'm planning to filter and keg this one.

Hydroxide in what form? I'm assuming you mean slaked lime? And that should be fully dissolvable? (unlike chalk)

 

[Nosybear]

Sodium hydroxide.

 

[BOB357]

I've used Baking Soda several times with good results, but not back when I bottled. I can't imagine anything in it that would cause gushers making it all the way through the mash, boil and fermentation. Not a chemist tho.

 

[Nosybear]

I've used Baking Soda several times with good results, but not back when I bottled. I can't imagine anything in it that would cause gushers making it all the way through the mash, boil and fermentation. Not a chemist tho.

I'm working from memory here and too lazy to google: It precipitates calcium phosphate crystals - the mineral apatite. And in my water, it immediately forms calcium carbonate, noticeable as a haze in the water. So I don't use it, despite its convenience and safety.