Question about No Chill hop additions

[Sunfire96]

When I add hops with 20 mins entered in the No Chill box the flameout and whirlpool IBU calculations don't match.

My flameout addition is time 0 during the boil. And the whirlpool is set to 20 mins at 212F.

Should they match? Is there a reason that they don't?

The recipe I was working on is called On Tap V

 

[Flying Weasels Home Brewery]

In a way, I suppose they should match, but whirlpool hops are typically added in the 180-190F range. When you throw them in at boil end, most people call those finishing hops or knockout hops.

 

[AHarper]

When you throw them in at boil end, most people call those finishing hops or knockout hops.

I call them "I'm going to have difficulty in emptying the boiler Hops"

 

[Sunfire96]

In a way, I suppose they should match, but whirlpool hops are typically added in the 180-190F range. When you throw them in at boil end, most people call those finishing hops or knockout hops.

That's my point. I have it set to a 212F whirlpool and the calculated IBUs are different from the flameout IBUs. Should they be different values or the same?

 

[Mark Farrall]

Do you have a value in the no chill extended boil time field? That might explain a difference. Or I could read the original post better...

I'm guessing that there's a different handling of that extended boil time for the two modes. Doesn't make sense to me. Is the flameout addition larger? Maybe whirlpool being a newer addition ignores the extended boil time?

 

[Sunfire96]

Do you have a value in the no chill extended boil time field? That might explain a difference. Or I could read the original post better...

I'm guessing that there's a different handling of that extended boil time for the two modes. Doesn't make sense to me. Is the flameout addition larger? Maybe whirlpool being a newer addition ignores the extended boil time?

Yes, 20 minutes no chill

I feel that the values should be the same. My suspicion is that the whirlpool setting isn't taking the No Chill into effect.

@Pricelessbrewing do you have any ideas?

 

[Pricelessbrewing]

Not at home to dig into further or verify for this particular recipe, but...


Looking at a quick test recipe it seems the "no chil boil extension time" is only applies to boil hop additions and not whirlpool/hopstand additions. Moreover, imo, our utilization function for whirlpooling or flameout hops isn't the best. Since both the time and temp are needed, and right now you can have whirlpool additions provide more ibus than a boil addition in the recipe builder for small time values, which doesn't make much sense.


At some point I'm hoping to dig into the variants of tinseth formula, notably alchemy overlords mIBU, that keeps the boil addition curve and adds a adjustment parameter depending on the time and temp curve for chilling.

 

[Sunfire96]

Not at home to dig into further or verify for this particular recipe, but...


Looking at a quick test recipe it seems the "no chil boil extension time" is only applies to boil hop additions and not whirlpool/hopstand additions. Moreover, imo, our utilization function for whirlpooling or flameout hops isn't the best. Since both the time and temp are needed, and right now you can have whirlpool additions provide more ibus than a boil addition in the recipe builder for small time values, which doesn't make much sense.


At some point I'm hoping to dig into the variants of tinseth formula, notably alchemy overlords mIBU, that keeps the boil addition curve and adds a adjustment parameter depending on the time and temp curve for chilling.

Thanks @Pricelessbrewing! I'll stick to the flameout addition cuz the calculated IBU makes more sense to me

 

[GFHomebrew]

Since moving to no chill brewing the Ibus I percieve are less than the recipe calculator indicates.
I remember my Not so Blonde ale recently having an calculated ibu of 35 and forum users saying that is too high.
I stuck with my gut on the set ibus the beer is drinking beautifully atm and I percieve IBUs are more mid to high 20's

Your going to have to get a feel for it sunfire and then use your pallate as a guage in reference to future brews.
Keeping good notes help


Oh and 30ibus to you may be percieved differently to other people.