Process pic

[pazu]

It would be interesting to see pictures of experiments in process, or pictures of current beers that we might have in progress.

Here's one from today; I had been wondering whether there would be a visible difference in the appearance of two similar starters, comparing one with o2 introduced to the head space, as compared to 1 without, all other things being reasonably identical to a gram or two. I needed the starter anyhow, & it wasn't hard to test. The result so far is in the pic, as is the sketchy rig-up that I used to get the o2 in there.

The starter on the right, with the cable tie on it, got a shot of o2 into the head space at the beginning of 3 ea. 5 minute stir/rest cycles, the starter on the left, same stir/rest cycles but no shots of o2. The picture is after about an hour of rest for both flasks.

Sorry if the pic is too big. Would like to see pics of what else is going on out there!

 

[LarryBrewer]

All I have in terms of experiments going right now is a split lager batch. 2124 Bohemian Lager (same as German Lager WLP830) and WLP840 American Lager (Budweiser strain). After 21 days, currently in diacetyl rest, the German lager has more body and malt flavor in the finish. The American Lager is quite watery on the finish and neutral tasting, except a hint of clove which I think is just the beer being green still. The American lager is clearer than the German lager at this point. Will start the cold crash today or tomorrow.

I bet you would be interested in the Braukaiser blog. It has lots of cool experiments regarding yeast growth:
http://braukaiser.com/blog/

 

[pazu]

Fun to hear your impressions of the flavor characteristics of your works in progress. So the main difference is simply in the yeast? I'll check your posting on it.

I am on to consuming the second mini keg of my first brew in a long time. Pleased with the result, it is a clear and crisp taste, no over-reaching flavors, a clear lensed view to mild hop flavor that is more notably present than strong like an ipa, goes down nicely and fast. I'm told the alcohol taste is barely present, though it does make itself known. The initial sweetness that I perceived, is no longer present. No hangover or ill effect from the beer.

I am happy with the TAD system as well. Only just begun to use it but, I am impressed. Took the first keg down to about a spoonful left, with no residue. I hadn't fined the beer and pulled it from the primary right into the keg. Pressure is perfect, and by feathering the valve at the end you can put any head you want on the beer. You can swirl it all around or let it remain stable, whatever. The carbonation level is great, both force-carbed and natural carbed. I can see how a full-sized keg system would be the ultimate, but the TAD is quite a convenient size for my house and fridge.

That is a fun site, with interesting findings. There is a lot of information out there to suggest that o2 addition even to starter, can result in significant yeast yield increases, I will be able to see how that plays out in my particular way and pace of brewing, by testing and comparing. At this point it appears that I am getting more sedimentation as well as krausen development, in the o2 flask. It will be interesting to see if the FG's end up the same for both flasks. If not, I can try to replicate the results, with the next pair of starters.

Still hoping to see some other pics of live brew gear from out there!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if your getting sediment in your starter that means either the dme your using is leaving it behind or the yeast are fermenting in the flask, not a huge deal but either way try to avoid both if possible in your beer

 

[pazu]

if your getting sediment in your starter that means either the dme your using is leaving it behind or the yeast are fermenting in the flask, not a huge deal but either way try to avoid both if possible in your beer

Isn't it normal to see a 'yeast cake' accumulate in the starter? I don't see a way of avoiding it. Perhaps I should be running the stirrer 24/7, or getting the temperature way down. Even with the stirrer, I get yeast activity from yeast cake fairly immediately,and it shows up as krausen & material at the bottom of the flask (the old yeast cake, hops, new yeast developing).

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

everyone does it different so I can't say this is the right way but what I was taught and still do is run the stir plate without stopping until the foam in the center of the vortex goes away, you should have a small vortex going at least and the temp should be in the range or slightly above fermentation temps, 70 to 75ish.

then you leave the stir plate unplugged on the day you brew to get the yeast woke up and ready to eat, so I usually just get a slight white layer on mine at that point. a huge krausen in your starter will work but your using some yeast up going that far.

now this really depends on how fast you cool your wort, I use a plate chiller and cool mine in 10 minutes, but I have been known to stick it in the freezer over night on a tired brew day.

this is the 10 minutes way!

So lets say your ready to pour the yeast in the fermentation vessel at 5 pm on Tuesday, your stir plate should be running Monday all day and Tuesday until around boil time, then stop and let the yeast rest and wake up, it should be ready to eat right when you get done chilling which is about an hour and a half from the time you shut off the stir plate.

there's nothing wrong with the way your doing it but if you want to get better yield out of your yeast, try it this way.

 

[Nosybear]

I'm strictly "low-tech" - a half-gallon jug and shaking. I lose some yeast but it works well enough for my purposes. If someone were to give me a stir plate and a two-liter flask, I might upgrade but on a homebrew scale, I'll spend the money elsewhere.

 

[LarryBrewer]

if your getting sediment in your starter that means either the dme your using is leaving it behind or the yeast are fermenting in the flask, not a huge deal but either way try to avoid both if possible in your beer

Isn't it normal to see a 'yeast cake' accumulate in the starter? I don't see a way of avoiding it. Perhaps I should be running the stirrer 24/7, or getting the temperature way down. Even with the stirrer, I get yeast activity from yeast cake fairly immediately,and it shows up as krausen & material at the bottom of the flask (the old yeast cake, hops, new yeast developing).

It depends if you want a fast turn around. You can pitch the entire starter after 24 hours at high krausen - no sediment should be evident at that point. Or you can let the starter finish out. The yeast will settle to the bottom. Then decant the beer on top before pitching. I usually do the latter so the starter's flavor and volume impact is minimal to the beer it is being pitched into.

 

[pazu]

Thanks for all of your perspectives. I am running these starters through another 500ml of 1g/10ml wort now, probably pitch them tomorrow if it seems there is enough. Fun to think about the composition of this next beer!

A quick update, as it happens the initial FG of the air head space control flask in the pic was .009, and the O2 test head space flask was .008, before I decanted. After stepping up the wort equally yesterday, & displacing cO2 with O2 in the test flask head space once, today I've again checked the FG of both. FG of air H S is .008, FG of O2 H S, is .006. That's the lowest FG I have seen, mulling over potential factors apart from O2 that might have contributed to the evident difference in the two FG results. It is the result to be expected, really. I suppose in the overall arena of homebrew, 2 points is nothing but to me in the quest to develop a low carb, low cal strong beer recipe, this difference is worth thinking about. Nothing to be proven, just an interesting result.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

interesting experiments on yeast, good read

http://braukaiser.com/blog/

 

[pazu]

It is good, yes I think that he has added a lot to the table with this work. Great photos and resourcefulness as well. I think that the implication to his work, is that others could perform his experiments, or similar, to help to validate and interpret his results. Though they are good on their own. As far as conclusions, it is difficult to draw them scientifically without repeat experiments. 1 test result is good though 10 from different camps that agreed, that would be a significant concurrence. Not that there needs to be.

His work is good and fun & accessible but it's brewers friend that got me going ha ha ahh I may have had 1 too enough. Never too many...

I think that you do not use o2 at this time QHB?

interesting experiments on yeast, good read

http://braukaiser.com/blog/

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

correct I use large 13 gallon HDPE plastic containers to ferment in, just poor back and fourth 3 times with an extra one or shake and leave it , and yessss its freaking heavy lol... no peaking for 10 days

years ago I even used a drill with a paint stirring attachment, have to have an aluminum one though or else it won't last, create a vortex to pull in the oxygen. Everyone says not to do that so I stopped but never had a problem

 

[pazu]

correct I use large 13 gallon PET plastic containers to ferment in, just poor back and fourth 3 times with an extra one or shake and leave it , no peaking for 10 days

Whaaaaa?
Like juice come in or some such? >smart< to no peek! no peaking, no freaking!!! But see you know your process is gonna work, I'm still working on it

 

[pazu]

I am mulling over ways to bat down the krausen somehow so I can brew big in the 6 gallon carboy without needing a blow off (never gonna happen )

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

the main reason I don't use standard carboys is 1 they are clear , 2 time bombs lol
13 gallon

30 gallon

 

[LarryBrewer]

QHB - do you use a blowoff tube or airlock with those HDPE containers?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I have only used the 13 so far for 11 gallon batches and use an airlock, the screw top makes it nice

 

[Nosybear]

A 13 gal container for an 11 gallon batch? Seems a little light on head room. How do you handle the krauesen?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I don't brew heavy gained beer so never had a problem, since its so wide 3 inches seems to just come an inch from the top, never anything but sanitizer bubbles come out the airlock, if you look close the top is tall too.

edit its High-density polyethylene (HDPE)

 

[LarryBrewer]

Right, HDPE not PET. I fixed my post.