Possible Anvil Foundry Gravity Hack

[Mashmellow]

I’ve been sidelined somewhat for the last few months, but I’m finally going to brew up a K-97 Kolsch tomorrow in my 10G Foundry. One of the shortcomings of the Anvil is that its basket has solid sides with a pretty big gap between the basket and kettle wall. So, when you lift the basket out to drain there is about a gallon of water on the sides that hasn’t recirculated and mixes in to dilute the gravity. I have tried lifting the basket a couple times (works a bit) but it made a real mess and was hot and difficult. So, I thought I’d try something new tomorrow. I have one of their shorter whirlpool arms which I hooked up at a “Y” to my recirculation pump. I’ll run this between the basket and the kettle wall a few times during mash and see if that improves the efficiency better by blending on the sides. Dying to find out.

 

[Semper Sitientum]

I have a Foundry as well. Are you sure the wort surrounding the malt basket isn’t recirculating? The dip tube faces down and is very close to the bottom of the unit. My feeling is that it’s pulling both from the malt basket and surrounding wort. One more than the other? I’m not sure. I would hope the people at Blichmann have an idea. One way to test would be to take a sample of wort from inside and outside the malt basket and check the gravity to see if there is a difference.

However, one of the great things about this hobby is experimentation. I applaud your creativity and like to hear how it turns out. Especially if the pump powerful enough to recirculate to two outputs. I assume your using the Anvil pump?

 

[Dave Y]

IIUC, you’re working around a problem but doing it a bit more complicated than you need to.

See: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/all-in-one-brewhouse-help-thread.17832/post-212168

It sounds like you’re not recirculating enough or fast enough. If you’re using the stock malt pipe, diffuser and recirc pump, It’s plenty capable, you just have to get the wort flowing sufficient to get good extraction. You probably need to be flowing more than you think.

If you recirculate well enough the wort will constantly be moving across the grains.
Lifting the basket is good. I do that every 15 or so minutes during the mash; lift, let it drain mostly - at least 30 seconds, reseat, move the grains around in the malt pipe, resume recirculation.

Rice hulls will help, letting you recirculate more and better, thus increasing extraction. The better flow you can take during recirculation, the closer the temperature in the center of the grain basket to the bottom, top and edges, and the better your extraction will be.

Also, if you’re brewing in a bag, make sure you have a pretty fine crush.

 

[Mashmellow]

d

IIUC, you’re working around a problem but doing it a bit more complicated than you need to.

See: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/all-in-one-brewhouse-help-thread.17832/post-212168

It sounds like you’re not recirculating enough or fast enough. If you’re using the stock malt pipe, diffuser and recirc pump, It’s plenty capable, you just have to get the wort flowing sufficient to get good extraction. You probably need to be flowing more than you think.

If you recirculate well enough the wort will constantly be moving across the grains.
Lifting the basket is good. I do that every 15 or so minutes during the mash; lift, let it drain mostly - at least 30 seconds, reseat, move the grains around in the malt pipe, resume recirculation.

Rice hulls will help, letting you recirculate more and better, thus increasing extraction. The better flow you can take during recirculation, the closer the temperature in the center of the grain basket to the bottom, top and edges, and the better your extraction will be.

Also, if you’re brewing in a bag, make sure you have a pretty fine crush.

I do BIAB and I have lifted it like you mentioned. It lauders really well, but the water on the side is trapped. I have taken samples from the side and it's very low gravity. Lifting the basket actually works well, I just need to be careful putting it back down. Last time it overflowed a bit. I probably am making it way more complicated than it needs to be--I could just add a little more malt too--but I had the whirlpool arm from another set up and extra tubing so I'll give it a go.

 

[Mashmellow]

I have a Foundry as well. Are you sure the wort surrounding the malt basket isn’t recirculating? The dip tube faces down and is very close to the bottom of the unit. My feeling is that it’s pulling both from the malt basket and surrounding wort. One more than the other? I’m not sure. I would hope the people at Blichmann have an idea. One way to test would be to take a sample of wort from inside and outside the malt basket and check the gravity to see if there is a difference.

However, one of the great things about this hobby is experimentation. I applaud your creativity and like to hear how it turns out. Especially if the pump powerful enough to recirculate to two outputs. I assume your using the Anvil pump?

I love the Foundry and Anvil, but this has been an issue I've seen on a bunch of forums. It pumps from the bottom and drains through the middle, so the sides are kinda left untouched. Lifting the basket a time of two, as Dave Y says, is the go-to fix. But I am lazy.

 

[Dave Y]

I’d lift that basket every 10-15 minutes as mentioned. Work those forearms ! As your mashing and recirculating, the grain temperature varies by up to at least 5 degrees. When you lift the kettle and let it drain, how much does the temperature drop on the Anvil --with the sensor at the BOTTOM !!!

On the Anvil 18, I usually drop 3 degrees lifting the basket. Think about this; I’m mashing at 152, and over the course of draining the grains into the kettle, I go from 152, down to 149. It was similar on the 10.5 - which I use for sparging, currently. One nice thing about the 18 is the malt pipe has 2 different height catches, so you don’t have to fully lift / twist the malt pipe like the 10.5.

Anyway, the 18 is the same design, same gap and I’m routinely breaking 72% efficiency, last time out was 78%. There’s all kinds of workarounds on youtube, but they take you in different directions. I called Anvil and asked them directly how to improve efficiency, talked to them about what I was brewing, expecting, and they gave me the advice. It worked. I use the system as they designed & intended it and it works. Go figure.

Situations like yours are why we have that All in one help thread here. We all in one users have all been in the fault tripping, gravity missing, low efficiency brew days and we’re showing how we got out of it.

 

[Mashmellow]

he 18 is the same design, same gap and I’m rout

I’d lift that basket every 10-15 minutes as mentioned. Work those forearms ! As your mashing and recirculating, the grain temperature varies by up to at least 5 degrees. When you lift the kettle and let it drain, how much does the temperature drop on the Anvil --with the sensor at the BOTTOM !!!

On the Anvil 18, I usually drop 3 degrees lifting the basket. Think about this; I’m mashing at 152, and over the course of draining the grains into the kettle, I go from 152, down to 149. It was similar on the 10.5 - which I use for sparging, currently. One nice thing about the 18 is the malt pipe has 2 different height catches, so you don’t have to fully lift / twist the malt pipe like the 10.5.

Anyway, the 18 is the same design, same gap and I’m routinely breaking 72% efficiency, last time out was 78%. There’s all kinds of workarounds on youtube, but they take you in different directions. I called Anvil and asked them directly how to improve efficiency, talked to them about what I was brewing, expecting, and they gave me the advice. It worked. I use the system as they designed & intended it and it works. Go figure.

Situations like yours are why we have that All in one help thread here. We all in one users have all been in the fault tripping, gravity missing, low efficiency brew days and we’re showing how we got out of it.

Thanks. I'll look for that thread. I get around 65% efficiency, and just go with it.

 

[Dave Y]

65 isn’t bad, but what I found was I could get 65% on a beer around 6%, but mash bills needed for 7% beers were a challenge. I didn’t start sparging and using rice hulls until later efforts on the 10.5 and really started marking down numbers on the 18 gallon unit.

Let us know how the brew day goes!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

add rice hulls to the bottom about 1 inch, if you stir only stir above the rice hulls

 

[Mashmellow]

65 isn’t bad, but what I found was I could get 65% on a beer around 6%, but mash bills needed for 7% beers were a challenge. I didn’t start sparging and using rice hulls until later efforts on the 10.5 and really started marking down numbers on the 18 gallon unit.

Let us know how the brew day goes!

Dave, I did as you suggested and just lifted the basket every 15 minutes, but I think the biggest benefit was that I double crushed way finer. That crush worked wonders and I was able to recirculate with almost full open, and had no problems lowering the basket. It also lowered my grain absorption from .35 to .15. The efficiency is still 65%, but I'm good with that--nothing half a pound of grain won't fix. This Kolsch smells amazing. For me, the Safale K-97 adds such a delicate fruity character and marries well with the Hallertau M. Thank you so much for your input and help.

 

[Dave Y]

Sounds good!
FWIW, I hit 70% yesterday and I was happy to get it. I was doing a rye IPA, I went heavy on the rice hulls, really good crush, and it was a chore. I was underneath my numbers at the end of the mash but I hadn’t mashed out/vourlauf yet. I probably didn’t need to but I wanted to be sure so I ground up another pound of base malt and mashed it in. Got my numbers and then some; expecting 1.049 pre boil. got 1.056 before the mash out. I did 30 minutes of mash out/vourlauf at 169, and got 1.064, then went into the sparge. got 8.4 gallons at 1.052. ok, so went into the boil and the fun continued.
First I lost power briefly, temp dropped and I had to do some math to figure out how much boil i had left. Then I got an E3 /overheat on the element, reset it, got it again. scraped the element and reset it to finish out.
it was a long day.

 

[Mashmellow]

Sounds good!
FWIW, I hit 70% yesterday and I was happy to get it. I was doing a rye IPA, I went heavy on the rice hulls, really good crush, and it was a chore. I was underneath my numbers at the end of the mash but I hadn’t mashed out/vourlauf yet. I probably didn’t need to but I wanted to be sure so I ground up another pound of base malt and mashed it in. Got my numbers and then some; expecting 1.049 pre boil. got 1.056 before the mash out. I did 30 minutes of mash out/vourlauf at 169, and got 1.064, then went into the sparge. got 8.4 gallons at 1.052. ok, so went into the boil and the fun continued.
First I lost power briefly, temp dropped and I had to do some math to figure out how much boil i had left. Then I got an E3 /overheat on the element, reset it, got it again. scraped the element and reset it to finish out.
it was a long day.

Cracking up. It's really good to know someone else has to think on their feet. I am really trying to slow things down. I seem to fall apart after boil --almost always forget to aereate the wort before pitching due to "get-done-itis" Rye has always been tough for me. I am on a third iteration of a Pumpernickel Porter with Rye (Actually fits into Tropical Stout, but I couldn't pass up the alliteration) I dropped to 55% efficiency due to the Rye, and had to add extract to get the ABV up. So, I redid with a 30 minute beta-glucanase rest at 104°F with just the Rye and that made a huge difference--next time I'm mashing out, extending the time and double grinding. I love this sport.

 

[Dave Y]

... I redid with a 30 minute beta-glucanase rest at 104°F with just the Rye and that made a huge difference--next time I'm mashing out, extending the time and double grinding. I love this sport.

So you mashed the rye separate? I have to confess, I’ve thought of that. The interesting part to me is that in the early stages of the step mash, I was seeing great drainage, but once I was about 30 minutes in, it was definitely hanging on to the liquid much longer.

It’s done fermenting now - last night actually. I love hot fermenting yeast. Now I have to get temps down and try to dump some of the yeast.

 

[Mashmellow]

s done fermenting now - last night actually. I love hot fermenting yeast. Now

So you mashed the rye separate? I have to confess, I’ve thought of that. The interesting part to me is that in the early stages of the step mash, I was seeing great drainage, but once I was about 30 minutes in, it was definitely hanging on to the liquid much longer.

It’s done fermenting now - last night actually. I love hot fermenting yeast. Now I have to get temps down and try to dump some of the yeast.

Yes, I do the rest on the stove with a 2:1 pounds to quarts ratio and keep it between 95-104°F, like oatmeal. Smells great. Dip the pan and the strike water and off I went. I still use rice hulls and drop my efficiency down 5%, but it drained fine. I am looking forward to trying a finer grist next time. Yeah, love that yeasty aroma, feels like home.