Porridge stout help

[HighVoltageMan!]

I assume any flaked adjunct is non-fermentable when calculating alcohol.

set your flaked adjuncts to "non-fermentable".

I read these posts and maybe I'm just confused.
Is the trouble with the beer low attenuation or is a conversion problem?
Why would you set the flake adjunct to non-fermentable?
I guess you would want them to be set to non-fermentable only if they were never mashed, but then again, why would you put them in the recipe if it wasn't mashed? Converted flake adjuncts are fermentable and will add to ABV.

The recipe is really heavy with specialty malt, which will lead to lower attenuation and lower alcohol. It looks like the base malt is only 55% of the total malt bill. That is extremely low and will reduce overall amylase enzymes available for conversions. Typically the specialty malts don't need any conversion, but the flaked adjunct (rice, corn, oats) will need to be converted in the mash.

I must be missing something.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I tried flaked wheat, flaked oats, and flaked corn in the mash mixed with my regular grain. They don't covert well, or at all as far as alcohol with BIAB. Mouthfeel, yes, alcohol, no. This is with different mash temperatures, different base malts, and totally different styles. Once I make them unfermentable, the numbers are close.
I might not be the smartest dude in the world, but it works for me, and has made calculating recipes a little bit more predictable.
From some of the conversations I have had, it isn't just me either.
I think the OP was thinking about another idea for a Porter or Stout, and I was just sharing what I had done and how I like to calculate adjuncts.
I'm here to learn and will listen to anything that makes my brewing better, but adjuncts just don't convert to alcohol for me.

 

[Megary]

Agree with @HighVoltageMan!. I'm confused as well.

Flaked Barley, Oats and Corn certainly will convert in a proper mash and they all produce fermentable sugars (and some unfermentable sugars).

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I tried flaked wheat, flaked oats, and flaked corn in the mash mixed with my regular grain. They don't covert well, or at all as far as alcohol with BIAB. Mouthfeel, yes, alcohol, no. This is with different mash temperatures, different base malts, and totally different styles. Once I make them unfermentable, the numbers are close.
I might not be the smartest dude in the world, but it works for me, and has made calculating recipes a little bit more predictable.
From some of the conversations I have had, it isn't just me either.
I think the OP was thinking about another idea for a Porter or Stout, and I was just sharing what I had done and how I like to calculate adjuncts.
I'm here to learn and will listen to anything that makes my brewing better, but adjuncts just don't convert to alcohol for me.

I think I understand a little better now. I think you are getting conversion of your adjuncts, but maybe the efficiency lower. By making your adjunct "non-fermentable", you will effectively lower your efficiency in the calculator and the numbers will line up. The way to tell if the mash is converting is to use an iodine test. If the adjuncts aren't converting, then neither is the rest of the mash. The enzymes can't distinguish the difference between a adjunct starch molecule and one from the base malt.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off snippy, I just was a little confused by the string.

Edit: It should be noted that the overall diastatic power of the malt bill should be at least above 50, 75 is better. If it drops too low, the mash efficiency will suffer.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I think I understand a little better now. I think you are getting conversion of your adjuncts, but maybe the efficiency lower. By making your adjunct "non-fermentable", you will effectively lower your efficiency in the calculator and the numbers will line up. The way to tell if the mash is converting is to use an iodine test. If the adjuncts aren't converting, then neither is the rest of the mash. The enzymes can't distinguish the difference between a adjunct starch molecule and one from the base malt.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off snippy, I just was a little confused by the string.

Edit: It should be noted that the overall diastatic power of the malt bill should be at least above 50, 75 is better. If it drops too low, the mash efficiency will suffer.

My bad too if I came off snippy. Sometimes kind of hard without facial expressions. I do have efficiency issues with BIAB, but lately I have learned to compensate. As long as things are predictable at the homebrew level, llife is good.

 

[Sandy Feet]

My bad too if I came off snippy. Sometimes kind of hard without facial expressions. I do have efficiency issues with BIAB, but lately I have learned to compensate. As long as things are predictable at the homebrew level, llife is good.

I was playing with some old, Surf Rock on my Spotify tonight, and I may have come across some ideas for the next brew day playlist LOL

 

[miaamelia]

I read these posts and maybe I'm just confused.
Is the trouble with the beer low attenuation or is a conversion problem?
Why would you set the flake adjunct to non-fermentable?
I guess you would want them to be set to non-fermentable only if they were never mashed, but then again, why would you put them in the recipe if it wasn't mashed? Converted flake adjuncts are fermentable and will add to ABV.

The recipe is really heavy with specialty malt, which will lead to lower attenuation and lower alcohol. It looks like the base malt is only 55% of the total malt bill. That is extremely low and will reduce overall amylase enzymes available for conversions. Typically the specialty malts don't need any conversion, but the flaked adjunct (rice, corn, oats) will need to be converted in the mash.

I must be missing something from Salesforce CRM Consultant Manchester.

What do you think to this :

2Kg pilsner malt
2kg Maris otter
250g black malt
250g roasted barley
1kg porridge oats

single hop addition ( any hops to bring it to around 40 IBU )

is just chucking the oats in with the mash ok or do i need to bugger about with them first ? also is 1kg a bit too much ?

Answers quick would be much appreciated as the grainfather is getting impatient.

Cheers

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

1 Kg of oats seems like a lot, maybe 1/2 Kg would be better. Mostly because the oats contain a lot of beta glucan and protein. That really can cause problems with the mash. Should you decide to use 1/2 or 1 Kg just consider rice hulls or better yet, beta glucanase if you can get it soon enough. If you do use beta glucanase, be careful not to over do it. 2-3 grams per 5 gallon batch will keep the mash from plugging up. Beta glucan was called "gum" by the old timers because it plugged the mash so badly. You could try a glucan rest @ 52C (125F) for 15 minutes with the oats in the mash. You definitely want the oats in the mash the entire time. Exogenous beta glucan enzymes that are available for purchase are bacteria and fungus derived and can handle standard mash temperatures, so no rest is needed. They work the entire mash to 75C (168F). The beta glucan found in oats is not broken down in the standard mash by amylase enzymes. I'm not sure where your located, but it's not always easy to find on a home brewer scale. I use that $h1+ in every beer I make, it just makes life easier.

https://labelpeelers.com/beer-making/brewers-best-spices-flavorings/beta-glucanase-enzyme-1-lb/

My suggestion for a recipe is:

2Kg pilsner malt
2kg Maris otter
125g black malt
125g roasted barley
125g caramel 40 or similar
500g brown malt
500g porridge oats
250g to 500g of rice hulls or 2-3 grams of beta glucanase

Mash @ 66.5 to 67.5C Mash pH should land @ 5.6 at room temperature (if you don't have a way to measure pH, then just let it rip, it will likely turn out fine)

The black malt and roasted barley are very strong in flavor, but if you like the bite of that malt, then use 250g of each. The caramel malt and brown malt are added to build up the middle of the beer. It will "back up" the roast and black malt and give the beer some depth. The oats are up to you as well. If you try 1Kg right away, you may find it impossible to lauter and sparge the mash. But if you try 500g first and you think it needs more oats, then bump it up. The oats may give you trouble at 500g.

Recipes can take a while to dial them into where you like them, so if it doesn't work out the next time you can just tweak them a bit. Brewers often make the mistake of making to big of changes between recipe modifications and this can lead to confusion as to what is happening in the beer and where to go next.

Remember, if first you don't succeed, try, try again.

 

[Sandy Feet]

You have a lot of ways to do it. I did expess my way earlier. I would not use Pilsner, but that is me. I would use Maris Otter, period, as my base. Maris Otter is wonderful for English Beer. I used flaked oats in my last recipe, but only 1lb for 5 gallons. I'm having homebrew right now so don't want to do math, but 1kg=2.2 lbs, I think. I use Munich, Crystal 120, and Chocolate 350, but you certainly can play around with roasted barley for something more traditional. Again, I use BIAB, so I do certain things for a reason.

 

[Mine's an Old Peculier]

Hello folks, It's that time again. Just finished the last bottle. Spent the Summer drinking last Winter's lagers and bitters.

@miaamelia: I'm with High Voltage. I'd have concerns about the amount of porridge. Looks good though. You posted in Feb. How'd it turn out?

Revised recipe: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1401561/breakfast-stout-2023

Added a little base malt. Sticking with a 90 minute mash but now at 65°C. I'll check the conversion after the 90 mins mash with some iodine to see how I'm doing. added a step for the porridge.

As per Trialben's advice, second hops out after 20 mins. From what I've read since, the oils are all extracted then anyway.

Tried to get hold of some beta amalase. Maybe next time.