Oxygen free yeast pitching?

[Brewer #415915]

Hello people i have not done a brew yeat, will do my first one in a week or two
I cann ot find anything on how the best way to pitch the yeast if i want to do a pressure ferment and a closed system?
I have the triconical Fermzilla gen 4 with the pressure system
Can i, once pitching temperature is reached, add the starter to the collection jar underneath and open the valve and dump the wort?
Regards and thanks in advance
patrick

 

[Zambi]

You need oxygen for fermentation to start.

 

[Brewer #415915]

yes i should have said i do realise that, so how is it done in a closed transfer system? what is the procedure i suppose i am asking .............

 

[Minbari]

yes i should have said i do realise that, so how is it done in a closed transfer system? what is the procedure i suppose i am asking .............

You use co2 to create the pressure to transfer. That way oxygen is not introduced after fermentation

 

[Craigerrr]

It sounds like you are taking on a lot of complex tasks for your first brew, it would be best to keep things as simple as possible as you start out.
There is so much to learn about brewing!
If you have not brewed a batch of beer yet, you are at the point where you first need to learn, what it is you need to learn about.
Brewing beer is essentially cooking, there is much to learn to become a beer chef!

First, are you bottling, or kegging?
If you are bottling you don't want to ferment under pressure, you will be adding some sugar when bottling to create a secondary fermentation which will carbonate the beer in a couple of weeks give or take.

Second, I would recommend pitching a dry yeast, just pitch in through the top of the Fermzilla.
Liquid yeast isn't "better" yeast, and typically you need to aerate the wort, another complex task requiring special equipment.
With dry yeast there is no need to aerate the wort, and there is also no need to rehydrate it, just pitch it in out of the packet.
There are instructions on the packets on how to rehydrate, ignore it.
I use dry yeast exclusively, and not to boast but, I make some pretty amazing beer!

Third, not all yeast is suitable for fermenting under pressure, what yeast were you planning to use?

Fourth, when I do ferment under pressure I don't "pressurize" the fermenter.
It is better for the yeast to work without pressure initially, then gradually adjust the spunding valve to get to the pressure you want to ferment at.
If you are using say Fermentis S-04, it isn't a yeast that does well under pressure, but you can "spund" in the later stages of fermentation to carbonate the beer.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

+1 to what @Craigerrr said! Learn the basics first. Make good beer. Once you are comfortable with that, then add in more complicated procedures and make great beer. Most of the techniques I'm sure you are reading about will help to make slightly better beer, but only if you are starting with good beer. It's the basics of ingredients, mash & fermentation processes, sanitation, getting comfortable with your new equipment is how you make good beer.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Check out Dr Hans on YouTube that dudes been doing crazy Shoit with pressure fermentations for years!

So if you wanna ferment your beer in the conical fermenter under pressure you can in my mind do two things.

Pitch your yeast through the open lid seal up the fermenter and then using c02 cylinder apply your desire fermentation pressure directly to your gas port on the conical.

DISCLAIMER please find out the pressure rating of your conical before apply any co2 Pressure to it. Some can't withstand didly squat.

The second way and how ive always done it is pitch your yeast into your fermentation vessel and then let the yeast build up the pressure on its own.

You gotta have a spunding valve for pressure fermentation.

Set your ferm pressure first then go from there.


Simple right

 

[Brewer #415915]

It sounds like you are taking on a lot of complex tasks for your first brew, it would be best to keep things as simple as possible as you start out.
There is so much to learn about brewing!
If you have not brewed a batch of beer yet, you are at the point where you first need to learn, what it is you need to learn about.
Brewing beer is essentially cooking, there is much to learn to become a beer chef!

First, are you bottling, or kegging?
If you are bottling you don't want to ferment under pressure, you will be adding some sugar when bottling to create a secondary fermentation which will carbonate the beer in a couple of weeks give or take.

Second, I would recommend pitching a dry yeast, just pitch in through the top of the Fermzilla.
Liquid yeast isn't "better" yeast, and typically you need to aerate the wort, another complex task requiring special equipment.
With dry yeast there is no need to aerate the wort, and there is also no need to rehydrate it, just pitch it in out of the packet.
There are instructions on the packets on how to rehydrate, ignore it.
I use dry yeast exclusively, and not to boast but, I make some pretty amazing beer!

Third, not all yeast is suitable for fermenting under pressure, what yeast were you planning to use?

Fourth, when I do ferment under pressure I don't "pressurize" the fermenter.
It is better for the yeast to work without pressure initially, then gradually adjust the spunding valve to get to the pressure you want to ferment at.
If you are using say Fermentis S-04, it isn't a yeast that does well under pressure, but you can "spund" in the later stages of fermentation to carbonate the beer.

wow great advice and thanks for taking the time to reply mate!
i suppose i must add now that i am not completely alone doing my first brew, my brother is an ex brewer from many years ago in a more commercial operation, but of course micro home brewing with all of this amazing new home brewing equipment is a learning curve and i do appreciate that ........... and don't worry i am a a bit scared of it all and not going in all cocky and guns blazing! i just want to do the best i can with the money and equipment i have invested in. She who must be obeyed (SWMBO) is casting a critical eye over this so failure is not an option lol
anyhow your comments are extremely useful especially on the yeast and the non pressure pitching start
i will be kegging and i am using the brewzilla / fermzilla combo

 

[Brewer #415915]

+1 to what @Craigerrr said! Learn the basics first. Make good beer. Once you are comfortable with that, then add in more complicated procedures and make great beer. Most of the techniques I'm sure you are reading about will help to make slightly better beer, but only if you are starting with good beer. It's the basics of ingredients, mash & fermentation processes, sanitation, getting comfortable with your new equipment is how you make good beer.

totally agree and thanks very much!

 

[Brew Cat]

totally agree and thanks very much!

Ok I use the fermzilla for lager beer all the time. So what I do is aerate the wort and pour it into the fermentor no worries with oxygenation at this point. I then purge or not. I put the spunding valve in and let it build its own pressure. No sense wasting CO2. Speaking of which what I also do is daisy chain a keg yo the fermzilla and put the spunding valve on the keg. This way I can force carb the keg no waste. Another nice thing is you collect the yeast in the container for your next pitch no o2

 

[Minbari]

Ok I use the fermzilla for lager beer all the time. So what I do is aerate the wort and pour it into the fermentor no worries with oxygenation at this point. I then purge or not. I put the spunding valve in and let it build its own pressure. No sense wasting CO2. Speaking of which what I also do is daisy chain a keg yo the fermzilla and put the spunding valve on the keg. This way I can force carb the keg no waste. Another nice thing is you collect the yeast in the container for your next pitch no o2

Kinda like the co2 collection idea. Keg is pre-purged from waste co2

 

[Donoroto]

Hello people i have not done a brew yeat, will do my first one in a week or two
I cann ot find anything on how the best way to pitch the yeast if i want to do a pressure ferment and a closed system?
I have the triconical Fermzilla gen 4 with the pressure system
Can i, once pitching temperature is reached, add the starter to the collection jar underneath and open the valve and dump the wort?
Regards and thanks in advance
patrick

So to the original question: oxygen at pitching is desirable, it is an error to prevent it.

Only after fermentation is oxygen exposure undesirable, with some styles more affected than others.

 

[Brewer #415915]

Ok I use the fermzilla for lager beer all the time. So what I do is aerate the wort and pour it into the fermentor no worries with oxygenation at this point. I then purge or not. I put the spunding valve in and let it build its own pressure. No sense wasting CO2. Speaking of which what I also do is daisy chain a keg yo the fermzilla and put the spunding valve on the keg. This way I can force carb the keg no waste. Another nice thing is you collect the yeast in the container for your next pitch no o2

ok i get this completely and makes perfect sense
so i was thinking this way: from the brewzilla into the cooling coil in a separate bucket with ice to get it down to fermenting temperature and closed system from the coil and through the liquid valve in the oxygen filled fermzilla? sploshing it in so to speak
then i was wondering, or worried about opening the lid to pitch the yeast thus letting in more o2 at a more vulnerable temperature?
so my queastion was can i add the yeast to the bottom container, purge it and then dump my cooled wort?
am i worrying too much? shall i just keep the lid off the fermzilla and add the now cooled wort into the open vessel then pitch the yeast and close it all off?
thanks for your input

 

[Minbari]

ok i get this completely and makes perfect sense
so i was thinking this way: from the brewzilla into the cooling coil in a separate bucket with ice to get it down to fermenting temperature and closed system from the coil and through the liquid valve in the oxygen filled fermzilla? sploshing it in so to speak
then i was wondering, or worried about opening the lid to pitch the yeast thus letting in more o2 at a more vulnerable temperature?
so my queastion was can i add the yeast to the bottom container, purge it and then dump my cooled wort?
am i worrying too much? shall i just keep the lid off the fermzilla and add the now cooled wort into the open vessel then pitch the yeast and close it all off?
thanks for your input

pre-fermentation you WANT oxygen. I put pure o2 into my ferementor. yeast needs it to grow.

post-fermentation. you want to avoid it or you risk oxidation

 

[Zambi]

Yes, just open and pitch.
You need oxygen at the start

 

[Donoroto]

Yes, you are over-thinking it.

 

[LloydGM]

The guys before me are offering excellent advice and I strongly suggest keeping it simple and build confidence through experience.
I switched to pressure brewing with a FermZilla All-Rounder and have yet to have anything but an excellent batch. (That's 42 batches so far, btw.) Yes you can pitch with dry yeast and don't need to worry about aerating the wort, but I still do a yeast starter anyway, and it's a MUST for heavy beers and lagers unless you want to go broke buying yeast packets.

If it helps, here's my simple process:
1. Pour cooled room-temp wort into the FermZilla. My aeration is simply pouring the wort from on high, getting plenty of splashing & bubbling.
2. Pour in my yeast starter.
3. Attach spunding valve to the "gas in" port, set for 15 PSI, screw down the lid, then monitor periodically.
That's it...nothing special, no oxygen aeration, perfect beer every time. I do 6gal batches over 2 or 3 successive weekends. Before each one, I xfer the previous batch to kegs/bottles, pour in the new wort right atop the yeast remaining from the previous batch, and away she goes. I've never had a batch go bad and every batch is bubbling like a son-of-a-gun w/in 3-6 hours. I prevent over-foaming by adding 5 drops of anti-foaming oil (Patco 376 which is vegetable-oil-based, no silicone), same as when my wort is approaching its boiling point. (In fact, I never get more than 1" of krausen during fermentation.) I pressure xfer with normally:
1. Purge a sanitizer-filled keg w/ 15PSI from my CO2 tank. (Now both the keg and fermenter are pressure-balanced at 15PSI.)
2. Connect the FermZilla beer-out to the beer-out on the keg so it'll fill from bottom-up...less foaming that way.
3. Switch the keg's gas line to my FermZilla (after removing the spunding valve) to the CO2 tank.
4. Attach a Kegland Flow Stopper and spunding valve on the keg's gas-in port, setting the spunding valve to 20PSI. (This prevents the beer from flowing yet.)
5. Set the CO2 tank to about 17PSI, attach to the FermZilla, then back off the keg's spunding valve just enough to get beer flowing at a SLOW rate into the keg. When the keg's full, the Flow Stopper blocks beer flowing, and then I disconnect my lines.
6. I always get a gallon or so left in the FermZilla, so I bottle this using a counter-pressure filler.

Oh, and to make everything easy, I use only Duotight 3/8" connectors and lines. No spills, no leaks, easy peezy.

I'm not saying my method is best (especially as it probably isn't even close), but it's good enough for me and I have fun. I love tinkering, making things, and learning from my mistakes...so I don't mind making them. Much.

 

[Brewer #415915]

Check out Dr Hans on YouTube that dudes been doing crazy Shoit with pressure fermentations for years!

So if you wanna ferment your beer in the conical fermenter under pressure you can in my mind do two things.

Pitch your yeast through the open lid seal up the fermenter and then using c02 cylinder apply your desire fermentation pressure directly to your gas port on the conical.

DISCLAIMER please find out the pressure rating of your conical before apply any co2 Pressure to it. Some can't withstand didly squat.

The second way and how ive always done it is pitch your yeast into your fermentation vessel and then let the yeast build up the pressure on its own.

You gotta have a spunding valve for pressure fermentation.

Set your ferm pressure first then go from there.


Simple right

this seems to becoming the concensus here now, i think i am trying to overthink things
thanks a lo

 

[Brewer #415915]

The guys before me are offering excellent advice and I strongly suggest keeping it simple and build confidence through experience.
I switched to pressure brewing with a FermZilla All-Rounder and have yet to have anything but an excellent batch. (That's 42 batches so far, btw.) Yes you can pitch with dry yeast and don't need to worry about aerating the wort, but I still do a yeast starter anyway, and it's a MUST for heavy beers and lagers unless you want to go broke buying yeast packets.

If it helps, here's my simple process:
1. Pour cooled room-temp wort into the FermZilla. My aeration is simply pouring the wort from on high, getting plenty of splashing & bubbling.
2. Pour in my yeast starter.
3. Attach spunding valve to the "gas in" port, set for 15 PSI, screw down the lid, then monitor periodically.
That's it...nothing special, no oxygen aeration, perfect beer every time. I do 6gal batches over 2 or 3 successive weekends. Before each one, I xfer the previous batch to kegs/bottles, pour in the new wort right atop the yeast remaining from the previous batch, and away she goes. I've never had a batch go bad and every batch is bubbling like a son-of-a-gun w/in 3-6 hours. I prevent over-foaming by adding 5 drops of anti-foaming oil (Patco 376 which is vegetable-oil-based, no silicone), same as when my wort is approaching its boiling point. (In fact, I never get more than 1" of krausen during fermentation.) I pressure xfer with normally:
1. Purge a sanitizer-filled keg w/ 15PSI from my CO2 tank. (Now both the keg and fermenter are pressure-balanced at 15PSI.)
2. Connect the FermZilla beer-out to the beer-out on the keg so it'll fill from bottom-up...less foaming that way.
3. Switch the keg's gas line to my FermZilla (after removing the spunding valve) to the CO2 tank.
4. Attach a Kegland Flow Stopper and spunding valve on the keg's gas-in port, setting the spunding valve to 20PSI. (This prevents the beer from flowing yet.)
5. Set the CO2 tank to about 17PSI, attach to the FermZilla, then back off the keg's spunding valve just enough to get beer flowing at a SLOW rate into the keg. When the keg's full, the Flow Stopper blocks beer flowing, and then I disconnect my lines.
6. I always get a gallon or so left in the FermZilla, so I bottle this using a counter-pressure filler.

Oh, and to make everything easy, I use only Duotight 3/8" connectors and lines. No spills, no leaks, easy peezy.

I'm not saying my method is best (especially as it probably isn't even close), but it's good enough for me and I have fun. I love tinkering, making things, and learning from my mistakes...so I don't mind making them. Much.

love the advice lloyd!
thanks mate

 

[Craigerrr]

Yes you can pitch with dry yeast and don't need to worry about aerating the wort, but I still do a yeast starter anyway, and it's a MUST for heavy beers and lagers unless you want to go broke buying yeast packets.

For Dry Ale yeast made by fermentis, or lellemand you can pitch dry without a starter or extra packets into 1.060 or less wort.
I have actually pitched US-05 into 1.063 wort a number of times and had no issues.
This was based on advice I received from the Fermentis North American rep when he presented at a home brew club meeting.
In his presentation he stated 1.060, chatting later afterwards he said even up to 1.063 is fine to pitch dry and without aeration.
If you enjoy doing starters, keep on keeping on, just sharing the fact that dry yeast has come a long way baby!