Old Nation Brewing M-43 NEIPA

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Craigerrr, Mar 30, 2019.

  1. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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  2. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    if it's a true New England, move all your boil hop additions to Whirlpool and Dry Hop... Also I don't think Omega has British Ale III available in homebrew pitches, commercial props only on that one. They do have British V in homebrew pitches which is the same DNA as WLP066 and Wyeast 1318, it's the Boddington's strain. There's a lot of other good choices for New England IPAs also, like Hornindal or Voss, Omega DIPA Ale, White Labs Burlington Ale.
     
  3. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I like moving all the hops to whirlpool, and dry. I just looked at my home brew shops website, they don't have the OYL-008. I have used a Cali Ale yeast with great results, what do you think of that? Or what about Foggy London?
     
  4. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Made some adjustments, what do you think? I have not actually done whirlpool hop additions yet, but I'm jiggy with it! Would cooling to 180F be a good temperature to add the whirlpool hops?
     
  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Usually drop to 80c or there abouts for whirlpool less isomorisation at that that temp. I whirlpool for 20mins. Did one this arvo and hop flavour is there in sample.
     
  6. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have made some further adjustments after doing some more resarch on NEIPA water profile, whirpool hopping etc..

    -Changed to Escarpment Labs Vermont Ale yeast plan to ferment @ 68F (20C)
    -Whirpool hops at 140F (60C)
    -Mash temp 150F (66C)
    -Added 0.5oz (15g) Magnum First Wort Addition
    -Water profile adjusted per below
    -Link to revised recipe beolw

    Comments? Suggestions?

    NEIPA Water Profile.JPG
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/804971/m-43-clone
     
  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts anyone?
     
  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I've not brewed NEIPA but looks like a goer.
     
  9. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks TB!
    I think I will run with it...
     
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I know from reading around your water looks about right for style 2:1 chloride to sulphate. I've never brewed a beer with this ratio before in know @oliver has done some experimenting on NEIPA water profiles though he may be able to give you a head up on where your at.:rolleyes:
     
  11. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    I prefer 200:50 Cl:SO4... I honestly can't tell the difference between that and 150:50, but the calcium levels will change a lot in those ratios, and you might need a little bit of acid with the 150 level, but there's enough calcium in 200ppm that should drop your pH into range without any acid additions.

    I've also noticed a few things recently, can't pinpoint what it is but I'm following some suspicions. I think that maybe a mash pH too low with NEIPAs could lead to a bit of astringency? I'm not sure, I've been using Norwegian yeasts for my NEIPAs these past few and they attenuate at 80%, finishing around 1.010-1.012 which could also lead to more perceived bitterness rather than a ton of residual sugar balancing out the hops at say, 1.015-1.020.

    I've also noticed that, and again this is just a suspicion between me and a couple other homebrewers, there might be a correlation between calcium levels and flocculation. We've made some "hazy" beers that flocced out pretty well, we think maybe elevated calcium or TDS had something to do with it.

    I'd also consider seriously not doing any boil hops. no first wort, no bittering, etc. You're almost wasting the good oils in fruity hops by boiling them. THey're best utilized whirlpool at lower temps and dry hops. If you are insistent on doing some bittering, Galena is a great choice because its fruity character blends well. German Magnum, (not American magnum) has some good fruit notes on it. I like CTZ and Warrior also for a bittering that pairs well with fruity hops.
     
  12. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    THanks TB and Oliver, much appreciated
     
  13. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I'd be worried about not enough bitterness if you're going to start the steeping hops below isomerisation temperatures.

    Ok, so isomerisation is not a simple off/on switch, it's a curve, like everything else, so there will still be some isomerisation, but as you're starting so low it will be very little. Maybe more Magnum? Or split your whirlpool additions into two phases?
     
  14. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Well this was a question I was going to pitch to @oliver on his Whirlpool temperatures. What temperature do you whirlpool at Oliver when doing all whirlpool additions in your IPA style beers And what bitterness do you percieve from this. I'm guessing it's a hop quantity (even veriety) and whirlpool temp type equation?
     
  15. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    #15 oliver, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
    you can treat your whirlpool like a boil in some circumstances. The longer you whirlpool, the more perceived bitterness. The hotter you whirlpool, the more perceived bitterness. Also I sound like a crazy person saying this, but my two least favorite terms right now are IPA and IBU, both don't hold a lot of meaning these days (except for IBU when brewing traditional styles ONLY, but IBUs can't really apply to NEIPA these days in my opinion.) The old research and teachings tell us things like "flameout and dry hop additions contribute no flavor, only aroma." Well wait a second, how can that be true? Adding hops is adding hops, period. Yes they react in different ways, but there is definitely SOME kind of flavor contribution from whirlpool and dry hopping, or else why would we even bother? And why would commercial breweries be switching to exclusive whirlpool and dry hop methods for their "IPAs". Sorry, ranting.

    Whirlpool hotter for more bitterness, whirlpool longer for more bitterness. I can't tell you how you prefer your IPAs. I can only offer my anecdotes. I like to start cooling my wort to 170, then add all the hops and stir hard, and just continue cooling down. The time it takes to cool the wort down is the amount of time I like to have the hops in there, gives off the right flavors for me, i just need to target using the right amounts, which is typically 8-16oz per 5 gallon batch, 8oz being fairly light on hops and 16oz being fairly heavy handed. Then I place a fresh batch of dry hops in the fermenter BEFORE transferring the wort (a trick I read about from Scott Janish), then filter out the whirlpool hops, transfer into the primary on top of all my dry hops, pitch yeast, and go. No further dry hops after fermentation because I guess I'm lazy, and I like that all the hops get the biotransformation going on during fermentation. Plus the yeast and amount of time in the fermenter will clean up any grassiness. I like pure sweet fruit flavors from the hops.
     
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  16. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    also seriously, target a fairly sweet final gravity. like 1.015 and higher, otherwise the hops can get too bitter and grassy when it's too thinned out and to me tastes like chewing on a pencil or something.
     
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  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. I've been whirlpooling at 80c 175f for 20 minutes then chilling this takes 20 mins to hit fermentor so all up whirlpool process is 40 mins. I'll try adding hops straight to fermentor on transfer next hoppy brew I do.
     
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  18. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I brewed this tonight, this is my first attempt at whirlpool hopping. I ran past optimum temperature down to like 130F, and spun it good for about 15 minutes. I passed on the bittering addition, all hops added as noted above. I think I will add the dry hops on day 4.
     
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  19. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have a question on this brew, should I cold crash this one? It is a hazy brew, 30% flaked oats and wheat.
     
  20. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Added dry hops today, smelled lovely when I opened the ferm fridge!

    Is this a brew that I should cold crash?

    It is supposed to be a hazy brew, and I suspect that it will still be quite hazy after crashing....
     

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